Congo Vibes

Music => Congolese Music => Topic started by: shamala on July 13, 2014, 19:05

Title: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: shamala on July 13, 2014, 19:05
First of all let me say this thread is not meant to anger all or a section of members but my take.  I was just watching wenge musica perform my my what a performance.This prompted me to write this thread.

Kindly contribute objectively taking cognisance that members are of diverse affiliations.

am begging the question..are we witnessing the end of the golden era of congolese music. Congolese music at one time was synonymous with African music.Most genres if African music were modified copies of congolese music. Congolese music inudated most African capitals plying there trade.What happened?Nowadays it seems that it is the congolese musicians that are modifying there music to conform to other countries genre eg coupe decalle.

We are seeing albums coming out that lack the punch.Is it due to lack of talent,small pool of song writers, arrangers and producers or what.What is expected if Diego Music or David Monsoh ( Ivorian ) bags  most of the musicians.Is INA contributing to the lack of diversity ie same teachers for Patou Solo,Kimbangu,Christian Bombole etc.Has the role of Primus/ Skol also contributed by commercializing Congolese Music.

There were song that when played one would immediately recognize them. Who does not remember the drums at the beginning of the song Ndombolo? This days none of the songs are as impressive.Any day you play Mamou or Mario their effects are still felt.

I was just thinking to myself ..if you look at older atalakus the tend to outperforme the newer oner in terms of creativity,stage prescence and staying power .If Genta was to leave today where would you get his replacement? Wmm is struggling just to replace Brigade (my opinion). What happened when a guy would be picked from the streets and impress ?

I am generally disappointed with the current crop of artists. Wenge clan currently depends on their history .I will buy BCBG dvd due to loyalty more than good music.(true)...

What went wrong and what needs to be done to remedy this trend.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: NEWSIDE96 on July 13, 2014, 19:37
GOLDEN ERA was in 1999-2003 when it was officially the world war
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: EMOVICTEAM on July 13, 2014, 20:06
The problem lies on greed. Every artist wants to go his/her way and the result is less strong bands that depends on efforts from all singers. Can you imagine if all these guys can cluster up and form bands?.......like bill clinton, bouro mpela, montana kamenga, celeo, baby ndombe, serge mabalia, afande, well just to mention. The combattant issue even makes it worse.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: NEWSIDE96 on July 13, 2014, 20:53
Also lack of diversity within the artistic quality monotonous half-hearted rumba's which has dragged Congolese music down to the pit in African music when sebene's and animation calls where banging in the late 90's and early 00's Congolese music was influential that it influenced "Coupe Decale"
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Jdog on July 13, 2014, 20:56
I think it's good that African countries are stepping their game so that Congo can realize  that they need to come back stronger l, I'm not worried because the African star Werrason will release Dessert Ingeta which will be fire and Fally is taking Congolese music across borders every day then there's Ferre who's doing his thing and Deplick and Heritier will come up and Koffi Olomide the winner if four Koras has his huge fan base.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: shamala on July 13, 2014, 21:39
I think it's good that African countries are stepping their game so that Congo can realize  that they need to come back stronger l, I'm not worried because the African star Werrason will release Dessert Ingeta which will be fire and Fally is taking Congolese music across borders every day then there's Ferre who's doing his thing and Deplick and Heritier will come up and Koffi Olomide the winner if four Koras has his huge fan base.

nowadays they package the artists to appeal to certain niches..Here in Kenya ladies adore Fally ask them why or which specific attribute they like ...well they stare back drawing blanks..Tester years Congolese musicians used to let music talk for them ask Remny Lingala.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: ngombeshenzi55 on July 13, 2014, 22:31
I think it's good that African countries are stepping their game so that Congo can realize  that they need to come back stronger l, I'm not worried because the African star Werrason will release Dessert Ingeta which will be fire and Fally is taking Congolese music across borders every day then there's Ferre who's doing his thing and Deplick and Heritier will come up and Koffi Olomide the winner if four Koras has his huge fan base.

nowadays they package the artists to appeal to certain niches..Here in Kenya ladies adore Fally ask them why or which specific attribute they like ...well they stare back drawing blanks..Tester years Congolese musicians used to let music talk for them ask Remny Lingala.

Not all ladies Love fally, Where i come from in Kakamega...Werrason and JB are the darlins of the women, I guess you  would have used the words Young teen ladies, who love Fallys looks and fashion.My wife is now a big fan of Karmapa, My mum, and my aunties. Karmapa is the only Musician  who is holding on  to the original beautiful  culture of Congo music .

Very few people talk about him on here. Try his music guys!


Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: KAISARI on July 13, 2014, 23:23
It depends on who you ask but to me the Golden era was late 70s into the 80s Nairobi was hotter than Kin then...
http://youtu.be/6u3_3XI7Nr8?list=FLdRWANZeifT8ECRSmD8C3XA
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: SLY PAPA NA KEVIN on July 13, 2014, 23:33
You're right shamala,it's the end of an era and you've correctly put it, it's now congolese musicians having to adopt other styles. Congolese musicians introduced a unique style which west africans copied and made their own genres called makosa and coupe decalle and using the same sebene formula,the west africans have now created what is being called afropop music,it's still sebene with solo guitar mixed with R&B and it's more appealing internationally much that world stars are now collaborating with african musicians and even producing them. This same afropop is being played everywhere now even in clubs here in Europe and on radio.
Congolese musicians are just stubborn, they don't seem to realise that what drew attention to Zairean music was the sebene.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Pamba on July 14, 2014, 01:38
I don’t think Congolese music change that much; I think people now have more access to other music (genre).  For example in Tanzanians: it’s rare to hear Congolese music on radio nowadays.  The radio stations play more of Bongo Flavor and east African music (Kenya and Uganda) and lit bit of West Africa.
I think they should focus on Sebene more than Rumba.  However! I don’t think they care about outsider; they care about their own people.  Sometimes I wonder what’s going to be after Koffi and Wenge Clan gone.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Tata Nkiadi on July 14, 2014, 03:41
Congolese musicians are just stubborn, they don't seem to realise that what drew attention to Zairean music was the sebene.

The sad realization is when the musicians started ditching the sebene for more slow songs and mabanga, the fan base with the money left with it. The fan base with the money happens to be white Europeans. These fans collected music all the way back to the days of Wendo Kolosoy, through the African Jazz, OK Jazz, Afrisa and Veve/Verckys eras, through the dominance of Zaiko and its off-shoots such as Viva La Musica, Langa Langa Stars, Choc Stars etc, to the dreaded and badly named Soukous era, to the emergence of Ndombolo through various Wenge off-shoots and Koffi/Quartier Latin.  I honestly believe the tide started turning when Werra and Maison Mere released A La Que Leu-Leu.  A great album, but the major complaint was the endless mabanga that plagued that album, add Koffi ditching the sebene and what do those fans have left? Nothing.  It's bad enough that they can't understand the music, but when they can't dance to it, they lose interest. These artists can't survive off of staying in Africa, with the rate of piracy and poverty, they have to travel to Europe. 

The whites stuck by them for decades, now they feel slighted, and I don't blame them.  Until the leaders of Zairean music figure out that they need that fan base and get back to catering to them, the music will decline further.  If they focus on adding the sebene back in and scratch the mabanga, the white fan base will put their money back into it.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Tunutu on July 14, 2014, 07:10
I do remember in the late 90s when the likes of Pentagone,  Loi, Solola Bien, Titanic Micko and other danceable sebenes were played, the dance floor was flooded with people dancing like crazy, there was a Dj who was very good at mixing the sebenes parts of Pentagon album,  starting from Coco Madimba, Filandu and Djojo Ngonda. But now its all about Rumba which the majority of us do not understand. When you attend a ceremony here in Tanzania you will find that people still dance to Loi, solola bein, Etat Major and other old schools, the only current songs you can here are Koffi Olomide Danger De morte live, Fally Ipupa Droit  Chemin and Malewa, in some pubs they show mostly  live DVDs with Werrason dominating because of strong performance he gives and the dance styles he creates.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Jdog on July 14, 2014, 07:25
For all the people complaining about to much rhumbas in Congolese music nowadays I hope you guys know first and foremost that Congolese musicians are mostly singers. So they have to sing songs because they are singers and then they add sebene and make a full song with sebene which is called a generique. And just because you don't understand the rhumbas they have to change it?? What about the sebene because it also has lyrics that some people may not understand. Wait for Balle De Match,Dessert Ingeta and Fally's group albums because they will have sebene at the end of songs.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Jdog on July 14, 2014, 07:35
And another thing, people who don't even know a word of English listen to slow American songs which has no upbeat dances or styles in it (Rap/Rnb) but do they stop listening to it?? NO. Rhumba is another style of Congolese music like in American music we have rappers just like in DRC they have atalakus and we both have singers whether in Pop/Rnb or Country music. And when Fally goes to different countries and starts singing his rhumba songs people who don't even know Lingala  loudly start singing along with him like it was a concert in DRC. 
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Jdog on July 14, 2014, 07:40
And as for mabanga, I get annoyed when theirs to much mabnga in one song or its a vocal just filled with mabanga and no real lyrics. But mabnga is a huge part of Congolese musicians revenue as they don't play outside Africa at this moment because of the combattant situation. 
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: SLY PAPA NA KEVIN on July 14, 2014, 08:05
Tata Nkiadi, spot on!! Even most of the producers have now given up, they would rather work young upcoming musicians doing dance music which is being called afropop because it's faster and danceable. 
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: SLY PAPA NA KEVIN on July 14, 2014, 08:12
Jdog, you're contradicting yourself. First you say congolese music is about singing then later you say people get tired of people like Fally singing something they don't understand so in effect you're agreeing that this new trend of rhumba has messed up congolese music.

One thing you must understand is that what most young musicians are doing is just ballads, it's actually tcha tcho introduced by Koffi Olomide where the song has one or two slow melodies/ rhythms and is slow with the lyrics being about love only with one singer singing from start to finish, that is not the way rhumba was made back in the days.
Listen to TPOK Jazz, Fiesta etc, you'll hear proper rhumba with excellent vocal arrangements by a variety of singers on and complex musical arrangement and with diverse topics to sing about not just mere love like I want you back, am dying and all that crap. A song should have a strong story and that's what old songs had and most ended with at least semi sebene, not slow and not too fast even without animation.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Jdog on July 14, 2014, 08:40
Sly I never said people get tired of Fally's rhumbas I said that when he goes to different countries fans sing along with him even though they don't know a word of Lingala.....so that shows that people are not tired of Congolese rhumbas and Sly you can't dance all the time there needs to be a time where you just relax and listen to someone sing and if people just want to dance, they can dance to rhumba we dance to Rnb over here in America.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: archos on July 14, 2014, 09:28
jdog the difference between the rumbas of the past  and now is that there was  guitar in most of them,there was a certain tempo you can dance too, not synthé/computer throughout
for example one of the bigggest rumba hits mario,or koffi's ngobila and also since the current album setup was not there yet they were releasing maximum three or four songs a year
i for example remember a song like muzi of ntesa,most of my foreign friends used to love singing it even though they slaughtered words lol but they were really having fun
whereas today singing means synthé/computer rumba 99 per cent of the time
of course music is not just dance,but  dance is universal language,yes fans sings fally's songs(and koffi has the same treatment) but i highly doubt foreign guys can sit there for 2 hours of rumba non stop,no way unless its a VIP,they would need droit chemin/loi type of songs as well
In what  was mentioned as the golden era of congolese music, the guys were not lacking rumbas to release,but they were picking the 2 or 3 best ones then the rest were sebene songs,and result most of those "rare" rumbas were big hits
instead of  doing  so called "world" albums with "so called" rnb,coupe decale what they can do then, is release a rumba album destined mainly to DRC and one with the old formula for abroad,that's the secret
proof is the music seen today as stronger are dances,azonto and other concepts of that type,gweta from togo, the different dances of coupe déecale...
may make an analogy between congolese music and brazilian football,both were untouchable when they did their thing their way(danceable rumba/sebene and samba football aka joga bonito) the day they dumped their basics to follow others(for example the guys who think to compete with coupe decale you have to try to do coupe decale) and look what happened...
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: EMOVICTEAM on July 14, 2014, 09:35
I think it's good that African countries are stepping their game so that Congo can realize  that they need to come back stronger l, I'm not worried because the African star Werrason will release Dessert Ingeta which will be fire and Fally is taking Congolese music across borders every day then there's Ferre who's doing his thing and Deplick and Heritier will come up and Koffi Olomide the winner if four Koras has his huge fan base.

nowadays they package the artists to appeal to certain niches..Here in Kenya ladies adore Fally ask them why or which specific attribute they like ...well they stare back drawing blanks..Tester years Congolese musicians used to let music talk for them ask Remny Lingala.

Not all ladies Love fally, Where i come from in Kakamega...Werrason and JB are the darlins of the women, I guess you  would have used the words Young teen ladies, who love Fallys looks and fashion.My wife is now a big fan of Karmapa, My mum, and my aunties. Karmapa is the only Musician  who is holding on  to the original beautiful  culture of Congo music .

Very few people talk about him on here. Try his music guys!

Kakamega.....were on earth is this location?......I also think I need to listen to Karmapa, I have ignored him too much.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: EMOVICTEAM on July 14, 2014, 09:37
You're right shamala,it's the end of an era and you've correctly put it, it's now congolese musicians having to adopt other styles. Congolese musicians introduced a unique style which west africans copied and made their own genres called makosa and coupe decalle and using the same sebene formula,the west africans have now created what is being called afropop music,it's still sebene with solo guitar mixed with R&B and it's more appealing internationally much that world stars are now collaborating with african musicians and even producing them. This same afropop is being played everywhere now even in clubs here in Europe and on radio.
Congolese musicians are just stubborn, they don't seem to realise that what drew attention to Zairean music was the sebene.

Sly, you have brought out a good point and now is the time we talk to Kofi, Gola and to some extent Fally......these love talking to the microphone alone with very little sebene. Koffi is the major culprit though.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: EMOVICTEAM on July 14, 2014, 09:51
Sly I never said people get tired of Fally's rhumbas I said that when he goes to different countries fans sing along with him even though they don't know a word of Lingala.....so that shows that people are not tired of Congolese rhumbas and Sly you can't dance all the time there needs to be a time where you just relax and listen to someone sing and if people just want to dance, they can dance to rhumba we dance to Rnb over here in America.

Jdog, Congolese Music was very popular because of sebene and we danced all the way in pubs here in Zambia. Ask Sly, Cheztemba has suffered a huge setback because of lack of sebene music and the owner Kayembe even closed the Lusaka Cheztemba which housed smaller pubs for other genres just to cater for others. Another Cheztemba has been opened and still has inside pubs playing other music.....I dont think it will last again. So sebene should be brought back if Congolese Music has to come back strong.

I do not know which Ministry deals with culture and music in Congo, but maybe to people like Archos, kindly take this up and write a petition or something to the Ministry....I am sure they will round up big artists and talk to them. This is why here in Zambia, popular songs in pubs are coming from Felix Wazekwa as number one, Werrason, Fally, JB, Gola in that order. Wazekwa's sebenes beat them in bars because he never leaves a stone unturned when he hits a sebene. Though they sound cut and paste, only you who knows how a sebene is played will notice, not the unsuspecting drunk people.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Tunutu on July 14, 2014, 10:55
I think the current generation of Congolese Music, the likes of Ferre and Fally should be more creative like their brothers.  Wenge Musica led by Mpiana, Werra and took the Congolese Music to the  current level, and there is nothing else they can do, with the imminent retirement of Koffi Olomide and the apparent lack of interest from Mpiana its high time for Fally and Co to take over and lead us to the next level
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Pamba on July 14, 2014, 15:18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmcZgon6N5I#t=26

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbPoFDGTRPI#t=207

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpKKxI5ysus#t=195

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr805mZ3NHI#t=47

The best slow song ever from far right(Republicans, wanafujo,Werrason)

Give me this kind of music anytime, i will spend my money on Cds.  Balance tune
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Jdog on July 14, 2014, 17:20
So you guys like upbeat rhumbas it seems and what's wrong with the piano in rhumbas? The piano is still an instrument used widely in every genre of music.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Tata Nkiadi on July 14, 2014, 18:20
And as for mabanga, I get annoyed when theirs to much mabnga in one song or its a vocal just filled with mabanga and no real lyrics. But mabnga is a huge part of Congolese musicians revenue as they don't play outside Africa at this moment because of the combattant situation. 
Mabanga has been out way before the combattant situation.

So you guys like upbeat rhumbas it seems and what's wrong with the piano in rhumbas? The piano is still an instrument used widely in every genre of music.

Where is Mpondolo to answer this?
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Mwana Nsalu on July 14, 2014, 18:50
we are the start of a new era. Many ppl who lived thru the 60s - 80s would laugh at this thread and say the golden era ended over 20 years ago. Its all perception the young ppl who love fally and ferre and present day wmm arent complaining. With this new crop of young artists emerging. The reality is as things change it is rare that things go back to how it was. You either embrace the changes or go back and listen to what used to be. American music is in way worse shape than congolese music and I still am able to find music to enjoy. The same with congolese music.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Franco Pepe Kalle on July 14, 2014, 23:46
Shamala you raised a great question.

We are seeing the end of golden era of Congolese Music. It has been gone for some time. I would say that East African music was great during the 1970s and 1980s. Congolese Music was golden from 1980s to mid 2000s.

Congolese music started to become very known in 1980s when Franco and Tabu Ley went to my country USA. That is where you started to see people enjoy Congolese music. Already Europe had some awareness of Congolese music. I would say that Rumba music was great in 1980s with Franco, Bokelo, and Tabu Ley. We call that Rumba Odemba. But then Congolese music became more and more sebene music. Soukous music comes as result of Kanda Bongo Man, Nyboma, Pepe Kalle, Zaiko Langa Langa, and Papa Wemba. 1980s was a great time because you had the Odemba age vs the soukous age. But when the 1990s came, we had the birth of CLAN WENGE. We had Wenge El Paris and Wenge Musica BCBG 4x4. These groups became the new youth while Papa Wemba, Pepe Kalle and others became the old soukous age. Zaiko Langa Langa and Wenge Musica were the groups on top with Zaiko representing the older group with Wenge being the younger version of them. It was about music.

Early and mid 2000s were excellent as well because you had older artists coming back like Tabu Ley's final album Tempelo. You also had return of Bibi Dens, and others. Congolese music was starting to get better. But in 2007, that all changed in my opinion. All the sudden with the controversial election of Joseph Kabila, Congolese music took a major dive. All the sudden Congolese politicians want to get recognition so they ask the artists to help out. That is when the mabanga thing got out of control. Also the white folks had enough of African music as a whole. So this is leading to the end of African music. That is the unfortunate reality but it is the truth.

The only music doing well is West African music because it is English. DUH. East African, Southern and Congolese music have been declining. Also West African Music has done a good job doing some Afro-pop music as DJ Sly and Tata Nkiadi pointed out already. That is the truth. So Shamala, we can only look forward to West African Music.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: ngombeshenzi55 on July 15, 2014, 00:45
I think it's good that African countries are stepping their game so that Congo can realize  that they need to come back stronger l, I'm not worried because the African star Werrason will release Dessert Ingeta which will be fire and Fally is taking Congolese music across borders every day then there's Ferre who's doing his thing and Deplick and Heritier will come up and Koffi Olomide the winner if four Koras has his huge fan base.

nowadays they package the artists to appeal to certain niches..Here in Kenya ladies adore Fally ask them why or which specific attribute they like ...well they stare back drawing blanks..Tester years Congolese musicians used to let music talk for them ask Remny Lingala.

Not all ladies Love fally, Where i come from in Kakamega...Werrason and JB are the darlins of the women, I guess you  would have used the words Young teen ladies, who love Fallys looks and fashion.My wife is now a big fan of Karmapa, My mum, and my aunties. Karmapa is the only Musician  who is holding on  to the original beautiful  culture of Congo music .

Very few people talk about him on here. Try his music guys!

Kakamega.....were on earth is this location?......I also think I need to listen to Karmapa, I have ignored him too much.

EMO BCBG Kakamega is a county in Western Kenya. A place where in every  house in the larger western region you will find a CD,LP, Cassette,DVDs and VCR  of any Congolese Musician dating as back as 1980s, The Kakamega Forest is a fraction of the larger Congo Forest so the monkeys in Kakamega forest  have ancestors from congo forest.  Kakamega is home for peace( mulembe)  in Kenya, a place where strong men  sir healthy and bright kids in the entire nation, a place where  women from this community are good  cooks, good in bed and deliver the healthiest kids in the entire Country. Women with sexy asses come from Kakamega. The only place in the World where it is estimated that there is plenty of Gold like that of South Africa but untapped.

Kakamega is home for  Congo Music lovers.  Huge sales of Congo music market base is in Kakamega/ western Kenya. Currently my wife is resting on my chest as we listen to Le Bantous  De la Capite -Bakolo Mboka, track number 12 Masuwa is gracing our peace and calm.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Tunutu on July 15, 2014, 08:19
Ngombeshenzi, you never cease to amaze me, when I come to Kenya I will make sure that I pay you a visit and enjoy the music together,  Kenyans and Tanzanians are like twin brothers.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: ngombeshenzi55 on July 15, 2014, 11:07
Ngombeshenzi, you never cease to amaze me, when I come to Kenya I will make sure that I pay you a visit and enjoy the music together,  Kenyans and Tanzanians are like twin brothers.

Welcome brother. True Kenyans and Tanzanians are  like twin brothers. I will be delighted to host you when you come to Kenya.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: SLY PAPA NA KEVIN on July 15, 2014, 14:34
So you guys like upbeat rhumbas it seems and what's wrong with the piano in rhumbas? The piano is still an instrument used widely in every genre of music.
I think there is just something you simply don't understand about your national music. Most of us here not congolese but got hooked to congolese music due to the distinct guitar style in congolese music.
You are saying what's wrong with piano? well firstly there is also a distinction between piano/keyboard for rhythm and the synthesizer in congolese music. What most of us hate is the substitution of solo guitar with a synthesizer in congolese music and this crime is attributed to King Kester and Koffi Olomide, Koffi changed but then he introduced distortion on solo guitar(rock mode) and now he prefers to substitute actual drums with programmed drums and electronic drum, the standard(traditional) drums sound better.


Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Mwana Nsalu on July 15, 2014, 20:28
So you guys like upbeat rhumbas it seems and what's wrong with the piano in rhumbas? The piano is still an instrument used widely in every genre of music.
I think there is just something you simply don't understand about your national music. Most of us here not congolese but got hooked to congolese music due to the distinct guitar style in congolese music.
You are saying what's wrong with piano? well firstly there is also a distinction between piano/keyboard for rhythm and the synthesizer in congolese music. What most of us hate is the substitution of solo guitar with a synthesizer in congolese music and this crime is attributed to King Kester and Koffi Olomide, Koffi changed but then he introduced distortion on solo guitar(rock mode) and now he prefers to substitute actual drums with programmed drums and electronic drum, the standard(traditional) drums sound better.

i think what has to be understood too is that congolese ppl have to satisfy their own home first and they have to follow the trends popular in their own country. the new rumba with mostly vocals and the seperate generique is what satisfies the people of congo and so this is what congolese artists are giving them. as for the subbing real instruments for synthesized sounds this is cost effective and not only congolese music that suffers from this. it is much cheaper to complete an album paying 1 or 2 producers rather than 5 or more musicians.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: archos on July 15, 2014, 20:43
That's why i said instead of trying to do azonto,coupe decale,alkayida or any of those stuff to "compete" with other africans they should  do a second album more sebene oriented and destined to africa
 no wonder,whey they go abroad they can repeat loi during a concert for 30 minutes because fans love it, or kin e bouger, micko, solola bien,kalayi boeing and so on
 one of the reason albums have that much rumbas these days is that peoples want to  buy rumba songs to their names much much much more,but i am certain they can find customers for sebene songs even from guys abroad if necessary
 
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: SLY PAPA NA KEVIN on July 15, 2014, 21:48
i think what has to be understood too is that congolese ppl have to satisfy their own home first and they have to follow the trends popular in their own country. the new rumba with mostly vocals and the seperate generique is what satisfies the people of congo and so this is what congolese artists are giving them. as for the subbing real instruments for synthesized sounds this is cost effective and not only congolese music that suffers from this. it is much cheaper to complete an album paying 1 or 2 producers rather than 5 or more musicians.
There is only one reason and that it mabanga!! There are no producers to promote congolese music anymore,only a few are willing to take a risk so musicians now rely on mabanga to make money and mabanga is best done in ballads as they have enough time to mention a lot of names on a ballad than on a sebene or generique.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: EMOVICTEAM on July 16, 2014, 00:35
Ngombe, how far is it from nairobi. I usually come to nairobi.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Mwana Nsalu on July 16, 2014, 01:47
i think what has to be understood too is that congolese ppl have to satisfy their own home first and they have to follow the trends popular in their own country. the new rumba with mostly vocals and the seperate generique is what satisfies the people of congo and so this is what congolese artists are giving them. as for the subbing real instruments for synthesized sounds this is cost effective and not only congolese music that suffers from this. it is much cheaper to complete an album paying 1 or 2 producers rather than 5 or more musicians.
There is only one reason and that it mabanga!! There are no producers to promote congolese music anymore,only a few are willing to take a risk so musicians now rely on mabanga to make money and mabanga is best done in ballads as they have enough time to mention a lot of names on a ballad than on a sebene or generique.

I think we waste time complaining
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Franco Pepe Kalle on July 16, 2014, 06:02
Ngombe, how far is it from nairobi. I usually come to nairobi.
Nairobi is the place for East African Musicians to play some Congolese sounds in Swahili.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: EMOVICTEAM on July 16, 2014, 08:43
Ngombe, how far is it from nairobi. I usually come to nairobi.
Nairobi is the place for East African Musicians to play some Congolese sounds in Swahili.

franco, did you understand my question properly?
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Jdog on July 16, 2014, 09:04
Ngombe, how far is it from nairobi. I usually come to nairobi.
Nairobi is the place for East African Musicians to play some Congolese sounds in Swahili.

franco, did you understand my question properly?
Haha lol I don't think so.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: ngombeshenzi55 on July 16, 2014, 13:18
Ngombe, how far is it from nairobi. I usually come to nairobi.

EMOBCBG Kakamega is  400 kilometers from Nairobi, 54 Kilometers from Kisumu,  so from Nairobi you can use  Nakuru - Kisumu- Kakamega route or Nairobi-Kabsabet- Kakamega finally for those who want to drink some Milk in rift Valley, one can use Nairobi- Nakuru- Eldoret- Kakamega route. I buy my Music in Nairobi  and do stuff there so we still can hook up in Nairobi sometime in future then later , visit Kakamega.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Tunutu on July 16, 2014, 14:36
Ngombeshenzi, is F1 Club still operating?
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: shamala on July 16, 2014, 18:51
Ngombe, how far is it from nairobi. I usually come to nairobi.

EMOBCBG Kakamega is  400 kilometers from Nairobi, 54 Kilometers from Kisumu,  so from Nairobi you can use  Nakuru - Kisumu- Kakamega route or Nairobi-Kabsabet- Kakamega finally for those who want to drink some Milk in rift Valley, one can use Nairobi- Nakuru- Eldoret- Kakamega route. I buy my Music in Nairobi  and do stuff there so we still can hook up in Nairobi sometime in future then later , visit Kakamega.
you haveny told him about the ladies hahaha
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Franco Pepe Kalle on July 16, 2014, 20:11
Ngombe, how far is it from nairobi. I usually come to nairobi.
Nairobi is the place for East African Musicians to play some Congolese sounds in Swahili.

franco, did you understand my question properly?
I thought you made a statement.

Shamala, unafanya swala moja mazuri.

But Kenya and Tanzania does love lots of Congolese music. Simba Wanyika is the Kenyan version of Dr. Nico. Mbaraka and Remmy Ongala were Tanzanian versions of Franco.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: ngombeshenzi55 on July 16, 2014, 22:46
Ngombe, how far is it from nairobi. I usually come to nairobi.

EMOBCBG Kakamega is  400 kilometers from Nairobi, 54 Kilometers from Kisumu,  so from Nairobi you can use  Nakuru - Kisumu- Kakamega route or Nairobi-Kabsabet- Kakamega finally for those who want to drink some Milk in rift Valley, one can use Nairobi- Nakuru- Eldoret- Kakamega route. I buy my Music in Nairobi  and do stuff there so we still can hook up in Nairobi sometime in future then later , visit Kakamega.
you haveny told him about the ladies hahaha

I already told him in the previous post of our Luhya ladies; The best cooks, so beautiful with the best non Generic  behinds/asses in the world(God) given , the most sought for women who  can handle a man like  catapillars  that dig roads all night witout getting tired..one needs those blue pills like Koffi Olomide to be able to handle them , note( Non Luhyas) as for us we are one and the same, Women who are healthy  that give birth to the most Healthy infants in whole County( WHO research finding) and of late they  are giving birth to 2- 4 kids at once  hahaha!  Our women are wife Material like Mama Biya ( wife of the late Madilu System), Marriage to them is sacred.....
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: ngombeshenzi55 on July 16, 2014, 22:53
Ngombeshenzi, is F1 Club still operating?

I guess  they must be operating but of late so many nice Clubs  have been developed... Mombasa Road  and South B  ....its like KIN  in Congo..., if you check in to this clubs here...you will come across so many congolese brothers and sisters...

There is Club simmers along Kenyatta Avenue...you need to visit here, Deap West, Tents, Club Wakawaka at Afya house among others and at Kenya Cinema..try Zanze.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: bencuri on July 17, 2014, 00:12
The end of the 70's was a major step towards making the Congolese music more traditional in approaches. Bands introduced the atalakus, the sebene was born, the music gained more traditional characteristics. I think that is what you are missing now. I read that in that era, the traditinal, tribal music was strongly popularized in the cities, especially in Kinshasa. People who came from the countryside had places where they could introduce their music. Clubs and meetings were supported by the government, where people could continue their traditional music culture brought as heritage. The atalakus as band members emerged from this cultural wave. So you can see that in the 70's people were encouraged to be aware of their own inherited culture and be proud of it and continue it. And it fueled the pop music too, the effects of this could be seen on bands like Zaiko, how it changed from the 70's to 80's. Today, this encouragement is missing, and people are deviating away to foreign music. My county is in Europe and in much better situation, but the same thing is happening. If people are not aware of their heritage, they deviate towards the mainstream that is clearly not Congolese music today but MTV.

West African music is more popular, becuase it became much more well known internationally. Who knows why, possibly because of better promotion. Those countries were easier to access by music enthusiasts, and this lead to a better communication and marketing. Central Africa was a much more ignored place due to tensions I think. For example, I often find people travelling to Gambia to master the kora and balafon, but I hardly hear about anybody who dares to go to Congo to master soukous. You can hear about a lot of bad things, riots, illness, poverty. This does not do good for spreading the culture.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Felo on July 18, 2014, 16:33
So you guys like upbeat rhumbas it seems and what's wrong with the piano in rhumbas? The piano is still an instrument used widely in every genre of music.

You don't understand. We don't really care about "every genre of music" but only in Congolese music. Authentic Congolese music. And the piano dilutes it badly. There are very minor exceptions like where Makaba used the piano (there real piano sound) to complement the main rhythm in a song and thereby serving as the secondary rhythm instrument with the advantage that, since it has a unique timbre, it did not cloud the guitar when sounding in the same frequency range. Yet that is taking shortcuts perhaps by lack of better ideas. Great artists like Beniko and Madoka can play up to three rhythm guitars in the same passage while all standing out distinctly. That is what Franco did with the mi-solo. That is Congolese music - rumba or sebene - with the complex interplay of the bass, two rhythm guitars a solo and mi-solo that no one else could come up with until then. And that is what we love, er, loved. Now it is all going, going, gone; to be replaced with the 'piano' (in quotes because what we hear is not a piano).

Nowadays what is played - no, inserted - is a synthetic sound (worse still, a muddy mixture of those sounds). Let me tell you about synthesizers. They are programmed by keyboard controllers hooked to computers. They are no instrument sounds but electric signals that have been squeezed and tweaked by software to give different pitches (like music instruments do) when different keys are pressed. No problem with that but they should be left alone to be used for electronic music. Not Congolese music. Trends can be chased forever and they will keep on changing and there will never be a conclusion. Synths are relatively new in the music scene but that does not mean they should be adopted by everyone, especially not for Congolese music. More emphasis should be placed on playing the music properly (by musicians) rather than doing things simply because they are fashionable. Even when musicians become expensive, all effort should be made to stay true to the sound. Didier Milla did it successfully when he got Caen Madoka to play all guitars in an album. But the true Congolese music should never have been compromised, sacrificed and murdered by the advent of the dreadful synthesizer/ keyboard.

In addition to what others have said, the embracing of the synthesizer by the Congolese musicians has contributed to the demise we are witnessing of this once beautiful music.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: shamala on July 18, 2014, 16:54

You don't understand. We don't really care about "every genre of music" but only in Congolese music. Authentic Congolese music. And the piano dilutes it badly. There are very minor exceptions like where Makaba used the piano (there real piano sound) to complement the main rhythm in a song and thereby serving as the secondary rhythm instrument with the advantage that, since it has a unique timbre, it did not cloud the guitar when sounding in the same frequency range. Yet that is taking shortcuts perhaps by lack of better ideas. Great artists like Beniko and Madoka can play up to three rhythm guitars in the same passage while all standing out distinctly. That is what Franco did with the mi-solo. That is Congolese music - rumba or sebene - with the complex interplay of the bass, two rhythm guitars a solo and mi-solo that no one else could come up with until then. And that is what we love, er, loved. Now it is all going, going, gone; to be replaced with the 'piano' (in quotes because what we hear is not a piano).

Nowadays what is played - no, inserted - is a synthetic sound (worse still, a muddy mixture of those sounds). Let me tell you about synthesizers. They are programmed by keyboard controllers hooked to computers. They are no instrument sounds but electric signals that have been squeezed and tweaked by software to give different pitches (like music instruments do) when different keys are pressed. No problem with that but they should be left alone to be used for electronic music. Not Congolese music. Trends can be chased forever and they will keep on changing and there will never be a conclusion. Synths are relatively new in the music scene but that does not mean they should be adopted by everyone, especially not for Congolese music. More emphasis should be placed on playing the music properly (by musicians) rather than doing things simply because they are fashionable. Even when musicians become expensive, all effort should be made to stay true to the sound. Didier Milla did it successfully when he got Caen Madoka to play all guitars in an album. But the true Congolese music should never have been compromised, sacrificed and murdered by the advent of the dreadful synthesizer/ keyboard.

In addition to what others have said, the embracing of the synthesizer by the Congolese musicians has contributed to the demise we are witnessing of this once beautiful music.
[/quote]

a very informative piece !
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: ngombeshenzi55 on July 19, 2014, 01:10
So you guys like upbeat rhumbas it seems and what's wrong with the piano in rhumbas? The piano is still an instrument used widely in every genre of music.

You don't understand. We don't really care about "every genre of music" but only in Congolese music. Authentic Congolese music. And the piano dilutes it badly. There are very minor exceptions like where Makaba used the piano (there real piano sound) to complement the main rhythm in a song and thereby serving as the secondary rhythm instrument with the advantage that, since it has a unique timbre, it did not cloud the guitar when sounding in the same frequency range. Yet that is taking shortcuts perhaps by lack of better ideas. Great artists like Beniko and Madoka can play up to three rhythm guitars in the same passage while all standing out distinctly. That is what Franco did with the mi-solo. That is Congolese music - rumba or sebene - with the complex interplay of the bass, two rhythm guitars a solo and mi-solo that no one else could come up with until then. And that is what we love, er, loved. Now it is all going, going, gone; to be replaced with the 'piano' (in quotes because what we hear is not a piano).

Nowadays what is played - no, inserted - is a synthetic sound (worse still, a muddy mixture of those sounds). Let me tell you about synthesizers. They are programmed by keyboard controllers hooked to computers. They are no instrument sounds but electric signals that have been squeezed and tweaked by software to give different pitches (like music instruments do) when different keys are pressed. No problem with that but they should be left alone to be used for electronic music. Not Congolese music. Trends can be chased forever and they will keep on changing and there will never be a conclusion. Synths are relatively new in the music scene but that does not mean they should be adopted by everyone, especially not for Congolese music. More emphasis should be placed on playing the music properly (by musicians) rather than doing things simply because they are fashionable. Even when musicians become expensive, all effort should be made to stay true to the sound. Didier Milla did it successfully when he got Caen Madoka to play all guitars in an album. But the true Congolese music should never have been compromised, sacrificed and murdered by the advent of the dreadful synthesizer/ keyboard.

In addition to what others have said, the embracing of the synthesizer by the Congolese musicians has contributed to the demise we are witnessing of this once beautiful music.

Felo, if you lived in  Kenya precisly where i come from, I'd have invited you for lunch.Today my son and I, we were lucky to trap 17 wild quails from my sugar plantation..... tommorrow  at lunch time we are going to feast on this sweet birds. We call them in our mother dialect " Tsisindu" I am touched by your piece which is very informative . This are some of the brains we need in this world...Didier Miller 's albums are very Congolaise.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Felo on July 19, 2014, 02:54
Felo, if you lived in  Kenya precisly where i come from, I'd have invited you for lunch.Today my son and I, we were lucky to trap 17 wild quails from my sugar plantation..... tommorrow  at lunch time we are going to feast on this sweet birds. We call them in our mother dialect " Tsisindu" I am touched by your piece which is very informative . This are some of the brains we need in this world...Didier Miller 's albums are very Congolaise.

Shenzi, I do live in Kenya but in Nairobi. My wife comes from your area and I know very well the taste of Tsisindu followed by a puff of Omusara. Bon apetit my brother.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: ngombeshenzi55 on July 19, 2014, 10:34
Felo, if you lived in  Kenya precisly where i come from, I'd have invited you for lunch.Today my son and I, we were lucky to trap 17 wild quails from my sugar plantation..... tommorrow  at lunch time we are going to feast on this sweet birds. We call them in our mother dialect " Tsisindu" I am touched by your piece which is very informative . This are some of the brains we need in this world...Didier Miller 's albums are very Congolaise.

Shenzi, I do live in Kenya but in Nairobi. My wife comes from your area and I know very well the taste of Tsisindu followed by a puff of Omusara. Bon apetit my brother.

Kiekiekie! Omusara  is for Banyore...nice !
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: bencuri on July 19, 2014, 11:18
You can use piano or synth keyboard, just like any other instrument to create soukous-like solo. Of course you cannot play it in the manner like a guitar, yet it sounds like soukous, and not latin rumba. You just need to accomodate the soukous structure to the capabilities of the instrument. There are soukous guitar solos which use nearly single notes only. You can do such solos on any instrument. Here is a good example for that on piano:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6F7lHM90KwI

And on synth:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2wWaInsJcvY

In this last one they solved the solo quite well. It is true that the guitar is the best instrument to play soukous with, but sometimes replacing it with other instrument doesn't hurt, and it doesn't neccessarily mean we are out of soukous.




Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: KAISARI on July 19, 2014, 17:17
Here Hugo Synthe plays (@ 18.40) in acoustic mode and it sounds just as good...
http://youtu.be/pfb6B2peTSs?list=UUxWZzFU2Fx3NisGJi6znoXg
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Ken Bilele on July 19, 2014, 19:22
 Nobody is talking about money factor in Congolese music, Passion was lost in Koffi era and after the split of original Wenge. Musicians rushed to make money and the bottom line was and has become money making in turn musicians are not taking much time to research again on their content. This is where the computerization comes in because musicians don't want to take their time.
 If Koffi is coming up with three albums in one within two years, then the question is, is there enough capacity to such albums in terms of quality assurance? Money factor here is causing musicians not to commit to strong groupings that can produce good music just because they think they can make more if they go solo.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: bencuri on July 19, 2014, 19:49
Here Hugo Synthe plays (@ 18.40) in acoustic mode and it sounds just as good...
http://youtu.be/pfb6B2peTSs?list=UUxWZzFU2Fx3NisGJi6znoXg

I would even pay him to post a tutorial of the tune he is playing at 30:40. That tune is cool, I definately referred to this approach. Who is this guy? 
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Ken Bilele on July 19, 2014, 20:17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfEPHvHT4JQ
This is the latest hot thing in East Africa. This gospel song is the talk of town in Nairobi, but what is the influence? go to you tube and you'll see one Kenyan commenting in quote " YOU NEVER GO WRONG WITH LINGALA BEAT" 
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: EMOVICTEAM on July 20, 2014, 08:36
Nobody is talking about money factor in Congolese music, Passion was lost in Koffi era and after the split of original Wenge. Musicians rushed to make money and the bottom line was and has become money making in turn musicians are not taking much time to research again on their content. This is where the computerization comes in because musicians don't want to take their time.
 If Koffi is coming up with three albums in one within two years, then the question is, is there enough capacity to such albums in terms of quality assurance? Money factor here is causing musicians not to commit to strong groupings that can produce good music just because they think they can make more if they go solo.

True.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: KAISARI on July 20, 2014, 21:47
Here Hugo Synthe plays (@ 18.40) in acoustic mode and it sounds just as good...
http://youtu.be/pfb6B2peTSs?list=UUxWZzFU2Fx3NisGJi6znoXg

I would even pay him to post a tutorial of the tune he is playing at 30:40. That tune is cool, I definately referred to this approach. Who is this guy?
The tune is cool and Hugo Synthe, a replacement for Thierry Synthe, is one the fresh talents in Wenge Maison mere; I like his swagg.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: SLY PAPA NA KEVIN on July 21, 2014, 14:23
In this last one they solved the solo quite well. It is true that the guitar is the best instrument to play soukous with, but sometimes replacing it with other instrument doesn't hurt, and it doesn't neccessarily mean we are out of soukous.
In congolese music, the synth actually replaces a harmonica and not necessarily a solo guitar but what happens is that when the synth is played, it's louder than the guitars, such parts in sebene are to break down the sebene a bit especially to do some solo dances or syncronized dance moves by those on stage.
It is not a problem when a synth is used for a short period but not when it's used for an extended period of time because it means the guitars are pauzed so it's just the synth and drums playing and sometimes that can be annoying especially because most bands set the synth volume output on high!
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: EMOVICTEAM on July 21, 2014, 14:41
Sly you are right.....what matters is how long its used on the song.....I will bring jb in this subject again. He is one major culprit at this especially at concerts....Alain makaba used to use it at the minimum but now most sebens have the synth chocking the solo. One other artist who has started using it is bill clinton makintosh, I do not know if its the frustration of losing kimbangu solo.....just listen to fukushima generic....synth all the way with little solo giutar....
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: SLY PAPA NA KEVIN on July 21, 2014, 15:08
Sly you are right.....what matters is how long its used on the song.....I will bring jb in this subject again. He is one major culprit at this especially at concerts....Alain Yes, if makaba used to use it at the minimum but now most sebens have the synth chocking the solo. One other artist who has started using it is bill clinton makintosh, I do not know if its the frustration of losing kimbangu solo.....just listen to fukushima generic....synth all the way with little solo giutar....
Yes indeed, it's being misused and it's all lack of good music arrangers on the scene. Back in days when musicians consulted experienced and competent arrangers like Al Nzimbi, music sounded really well.
The synth sounds good but not when misused and the harmonica too sounds good in its original form not when substituted by a synth.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Tata Nkiadi on July 21, 2014, 19:45
You can use piano or synth keyboard, just like any other instrument to create soukous-like solo. Of course you cannot play it in the manner like a guitar, yet it sounds like soukous, and not latin rumba. You just need to accomodate the soukous structure to the capabilities of the instrument. There are soukous guitar solos which use nearly single notes only. You can do such solos on any instrument. Here is a good example for that on piano...

I take great umbrage to the fact that you're generalizing the word "soukous" for Zairean music.  I believe once you know the origin of the word and it's usage, that detestable phrase to describe a broad subject would be out of your vocabulary.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: bencuri on July 22, 2014, 00:12
Why? What is your problem with that word? Open a thread on it, let me know what you think, I am interested in how to name this music properly.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: Felo on July 24, 2014, 18:26
You can use piano or synth keyboard, just like any other instrument to create soukous-like solo. Of course you cannot play it in the manner like a guitar, yet it sounds like soukous, and not latin rumba. You just need to accomodate the soukous structure to the capabilities of the instrument. There are soukous guitar solos which use nearly single notes only. You can do such solos on any instrument. Here is a good example for that on piano:
There is a very big difference between a synthesizer and a sampler. As I said earlier, a synthesizer is not an instrument at all, nor is the sound it produces that of any known instrument. It simply mimics the idea of changing pitch while pressing different keys like happens in musical instruments using complex algorithms as programmed by a computer. Rule of thumb: if you cannot tell what instrument it is, then it is probably a synth.

A sampler, on the other hand, is several recordings of an instrument done at different pitches and velocities and mapped to a keyboard or any other controller. When a key is pressed, it retrieves the corresponding sound stored in its memory. Advancement in methods of recording and mapping has made the sound more and more authentic for many instruments (although am still looking for a kora patch). But some instruments are harder to reproduce on a keyboard sampler. A classic example is a guitar: seldom do two guitars sound the same due to many differences in build and styles.

In the examples you gave, the acoustic guitar sounds or even piano-like sounds you are able to identify are those of a sampler. But if a real guitar were to play the same piece, the sound would always be more authentic and rich, mainly due to the natural harmonics and resonance created by the instrument. In many modern sebenes keyboard samplers are used to try and imitate the sound of a brass section (that was a standard offering in the days of TPOK Jazz) but the result is never the same since trumpet and saxophone sounds are pretty hard to reproduce by mapping. Notice that Bana OK still favour a live horn section for their music. That is why I prefer the real instrument, but, if it is not possible or practical (it can be challenge moving an organ around) then the music sampler would be the lesser evil for me. A synthesizer sound - the sound of the unknown - is a compete turn-off.

Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: bencuri on July 25, 2014, 13:28
I just wrote synth because where I live these electric keyboards are all called synth, except for those that only have piano sounds. You see they also call the musicians Hugo Synth, not Hugo Sampler :)
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: KAISARI on July 26, 2014, 23:04
...Synth, Sampler or whatever we opt to call em; in2K14 I am sampling em all besides this works in the favor of drummers...
http://youtu.be/iklqLxjG9wY
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: bencuri on August 07, 2014, 23:18
In this last one they solved the solo quite well. It is true that the guitar is the best instrument to play soukous with, but sometimes replacing it with other instrument doesn't hurt, and it doesn't neccessarily mean we are out of soukous.
In congolese music, the synth actually replaces a harmonica and not necessarily a solo guitar but what happens is that when the synth is played, it's louder than the guitars, such parts in sebene are to break down the sebene a bit especially to do some solo dances or syncronized dance moves by those on stage.
It is not a problem when a synth is used for a short period but not when it's used for an extended period of time because it means the guitars are pauzed so it's just the synth and drums playing and sometimes that can be annoying especially because most bands set the synth volume output on high!

But I think you are talking about situations when the synth is actually in rythm role, aren't you? I have noticed several times that when the synth is used as a 'filler' instrument, they do set the volume high, and it is odd, indeed.  But, there are several concert or studio recordings, too, where the rythm guitars are set too loud, louder than the solo guitar, that spoils the song completely. However it is just a matter of mixing. If used well, the synth can be very good accompagnement instrument in my opinion. Bilenge Musica used it as a rythm instrument on almost all tracks on their first album, and the outcome is quite pleasing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rih-gT753I&feature=youtu.be

What I referred to before is not the way of using synth as you talk about it. When I said it is good that some bands experiment with synths seriously I meant when it is used as a solo instrument. In that case it is not a problem that the solo guitar is in the background. Actually the song doesn't even need a solo guitar then. The synth takes the leading role and it is okay. The videos I pasted of that rehearsal of Werra's band and those that others pasted with Hugo synth appearing in them: there the synth is used for lead role. I am not following every recent work of the bands, so it may happen they create too many boring tunes with using synths, but well, I also know a ton of songs where the lead is by guitar and it is boring. So what I wanted to say is that synth itself has the potential to be good for solo, too, and there are examples, that shows the Congolese sound can be adapted to it. Of course everything is a matter of taste, if you dislike synth, then it won't be pleasing to you in any case, but if you like it, these example clips can be quite interesting for you.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: SLY PAPA NA KEVIN on August 08, 2014, 14:28
Bencuri, in Congolese music, they usually have two keyboards, one plays accompaniment to supplement the rhythm guitar, the second keyboard player produces the synth sounds and what I mean is this at
Watch from Min 13.56 to Min 15.19, that is what is referred to as Synth and often the keyboard players who play in that set up are identified by their stage name for instance Thierry Synthé, Hugo Synthé etc,it distinguishes what they do
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BudwYtXzmw8

or here is a clear example where the synth is used and it makes too much noise,it starts right from the start of the video so during this time the soloist has to stop playing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys3_EV7y7nA
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: bencuri on August 08, 2014, 18:10
These are different approaches than what Bilenge musica did. In the second video there are sessions when the synth receives more emphasis than in the song: Rumba is Rumba that I linked. However, I still say this is just a matter of composing. It is not the Synth that cannot fit the music, it is the composer who may implement it right or wrong. For example once I composed a Congolese like tune, that had drums, bass guitar, and synth in both rythm and solo. And I am satisfied with it. It is not the sound that you get when you have only guitars, but still commemorates the soukous sound.

What is ture, in the second video, they try to add the synth when you can here that classic Congolese sound with the solo guitar on lead, it can be odd indeed. It sounds strange, however there are moments when I like the outcome. Or there is that tune what Hugo plays, how they implemented it in the song on stage, I like it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wWaInsJcvY

It is definately not a piece where the guitar must play the lead. But it is just one track. If they switch off the synth in the next one, and turn up the volume for the lead guitar, that doesn't hurt in my opinion. It is like when a band adds one or two salsa tracks to the repertoire of their album. If not all the album consists of salsa tracks, I don't mind.

Personally I feel it is as if they were experimenting. I wouldn't like if Congolese music would take this direction, but when they put the synth on solo on some of the tracks and provided the solo is good, I am not against that. Actually I couldn't say how much you could use synth in Congolese music. That Bilenge Musica album has it in rythm on all the tracks, and it is more pronounced than usual, though not dominating, yet I never felt it disturbing, nor different sound than other Congolese records. It is different than a band with guitars only, but still I could listen their concert all night.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: SLY PAPA NA KEVIN on August 08, 2014, 19:11
Bencuri, in the Bilenge Musica you've posted above, the synth has been used to the minimum and not the usual way it's presently used. What we complain about when we mention misuse of synth is clearly in the two videos i have posted above, the synth we despise is the loud one as it almost mutes out all the other instruments.
To make it clearer, this is what congolese bands try to replace
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaKt7pO1M24
A physical harmonica replaced by synth sounds from a keyboard. They use the standard keyboard but apply setting to produce high pitched sounds like the harmonica.
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: bencuri on August 08, 2014, 20:44
So you are complaining about the mixing mistakes? I thought you are complaining about what Felo did, that 'the piano dilutes it badly.'
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: SLY PAPA NA KEVIN on August 08, 2014, 21:22
So you are complaining about the mixing mistakes? I thought you are complaining about what Felo did, that 'the piano dilutes it badly.'
No,the extended use of noisy synth especially in sebene.
You rightly noted this in this video,listen to the sound being produced by the keyboard with synth settings that Felo explained last time. That is the noise I don't like,it's okay when the synth is played for a limited time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wWaInsJcvY&feature=player_embedded
Title: Re: ARE WE WITNESSING THE END OF THE GOLDEN ERA OF CONGOLESE MUSIC?
Post by: bencuri on August 09, 2014, 00:26
You don't like this seben?