Author Topic: How would Kibuisa Mpimpa been with Wenge 4x4 ? (Read 1124 times)

Mfumu Vata · **on:** March 13, 2023, 00:55

Back during the JB-Werra war those coming from JB-camp were critizing Werrason for no having sung much on his own in the solo-album Kibuisa Mpimpa and that it was just like a group-album. This made me wonder if it would still be the case if the album was released under Wenge 4x4's name, having sung songs like Nicky D and Surprise Kapangala on his own in the past

The original project was to record the album the next europe-tour along with the bands new album Bue. Some VHS' already writing Kibuisa Mpimpa on their cover (for example their concerts of Abidjan and that of Nairobi) to announce Werra's album and Koffi giving Werra's daughter a shout-out in Motomolo. Werrason himself saying on interviews that he would sing with Koffi Olomidé on his album. Wenge 4x4 sadly split before they even could record the album

When seeing interviews of former Wenge Maison Mère-musicians it seems that most songs came and were prepared after Solola Bien and those done with Burkina Faso, Fiston Zamuangana, Serge Mabiala and co at Werra's house during the Wenge 4x4 not even being picked

CM PRINCE · **#1 on:** March 13, 2023, 01:28

I think it might’ve been like a group album because like you said it out of all the songs he released in Wenge 4x4 it’s only Surprise Kapangala and Tcha Tcho mbala where he sang on his own, Nicky D doesn’t really count because that was mostly a chorus song.
I think it would’ve mostly been Ferre, Aimelia and Alain Mpela would’ve been singing most of it, kinda like how Werra was giving Aimelia and Mpela a lot of space on his songs.
I do also wonder what it would’ve sounded like with Wenge 4x4.

BienMat23 · **#2 on:** March 13, 2023, 01:36

I didn’t know the original plan also had Koffi to sing on it that would’ve been interesting , I think they would’ve worked well together both singing at their best

archos · **#3 on:** March 13, 2023, 01:55

If they did not split and reconciled there would be two duets of jb werra which were already written by their friend kibens and slightly rehearsed at werra's house by ferre mabiala alpa,koffi was also meant to participate
there is only two songs of the 4X4 kibuisa songs which made it the jules bavon one,and if i remember well the prince au congo one which
was originally to somebody else ya sena and late chela were singing it for tchatcho mbala i think i am not sure sure tala kaka 26 plus years
makaba would surely not play much because werra was obsessed with mbokaliya playing most of it and surely his friend ficarre and japonais a bit
in 1995 1996 when both of them had too much songs already werra was saying behind the scenes that as soon as he has ferre seguin mboka and alain mpela with him the others can come or not he'll bring experienced studio guys to cover for them,and tour with those guys when the group is in kin
and thats where jb called kibens to come on a weekend from brazza on emergency with some extra songs to speed up a bit the pre-records in bobongo, i will not be surprised if seguin snitched lol because jb knew that if he took too long the order of albums could change

Mfumu Vata · **#4 on:** March 13, 2023, 11:56

Christian Mwepu once said that Werrason was susposed to do his album first but him not really being sure if it would be a succes and then JB Mpiana going first.

I don’t think that Wenge would split if they didn’t cancel the project of recording an album at the same time like Feux de l’Amour. Most issues in the band came because of many members (Adolphe, Werrason, Blaise Bula & Christian Mwepu) not being happy because of already having sold their songs but JB Mpiana seeing it like they were jealous of him when being asked if he could move his old or just record it with session artists like Makaba did in Pile ou Face

archos · **#5 on:** March 13, 2023, 14:10

yeah the timing was very close and since there was already tension about leadership it did not help,mawa trop
imagine a mix of the best titanic and the best intervention rapide songs,it would be fantastic

Franco Pepe Kalle · **#6 on:** March 14, 2023, 00:17

I am curious to ask, who caused the fallout between JB Mpiana and Werrason?

Mwanayaafrica · **#7 on:** March 14, 2023, 00:19

Quote from: Franco Pepe Kalle on March 14, 2023, 00:17

I am curious to ask, who caused the fallout between JB Mpiana and Werrason?

Papa Wemba did by saying that there is only 1 leader in Wenge 4x4 referring to JB Mpiana during a concert.

Mfumu Vata · **#8 on:** March 14, 2023, 00:37

According to Elliot Mondombe there were already tensions since the days of Anges Adorables volume 1&2 but they still being together. The conflict got worse during the 1996-97 Europe about Wenge 4x4 either well or not recording an album and their staffs of Europe making it worser by reporting to both guys Werra said this about you, JB said this about you. The conflict became on higher level because of fashion. Every tour when Wenge 4x4 returns to Kinshasa they have a new look, for example Cris-Cros & Versace in 1993, Pentagone in 1996, the Kin E Bouger look in 1992, etc. Werrason and co decided to come with Japanese brands. JB wasn't there because of still being in Europe to finish his album. Then when JB returned to Kinshasa he imposed the "Bana Mindele" look. Masela & Werrason weren't happy with that. From then it became really war and the band being split in two. It was really difficult for the musicians. Because if you weren't in Werra & Masela's camp you had a problem as musician and the same if you weren't in JB's camp. Musicians then being spy and reporting to both musicians what they were saying about each other.

You had also an unhappy JB who was hurt, because of rumors being spread that he had lost his head and was tied up at home for occultism in order that Feux de l'Amour would get crazy succes. JB's camp accusing Werrason for spreading those rumors and being jealous of him. In the song Esau he would coming back on that, the way rumors were spread that he lost his head. In JB's first interviews after Feux de l'Amour release he would often being asked if those rumors were true or not. The conflict became only worser with the time going on and them at some point not talking to each other anymore

Wenge1995 · **#9 on:** March 14, 2023, 22:05

Quote from: Mfumu Vata on March 14, 2023, 00:37

According to Elliot Mondombe there were already tensions since the days of Anges Adorables volume 1&2 but they still being together. The conflict got worse during the 1996-97 Europe about Wenge 4x4 either well or not recording an album and their staffs of Europe making it worser by reporting to both guys Werra said this about you, JB said this about you. The conflict became on higher level because of fashion. Every tour when Wenge 4x4 returns to Kinshasa they have a new look, for example Cris-Cros & Versace in 1993, Pentagone in 1996, the Kin E Bouger look in 1992, etc. Werrason and co decided to come with Japanese brands. JB wasn't there because of still being in Europe to finish his album. Then when JB returned to Kinshasa he imposed the "Bana Mindele" look. Masela & Werrason weren't happy with that. From then it became really war and the band being split in two. It was really difficult for the musicians. Because if you weren't in Werra & Masela's camp you had a problem as musician and the same if you weren't in JB's camp. Musicians then being spy and reporting to both musicians what they were saying about each other.

You had also an unhappy JB who was hurt, because of rumors being spread that he had lost his head and was tied up at home for occultism in order that Feux de l'Amour would get crazy succes. JB's camp accusing Werrason for spreading those rumors and being jealous of him. In the song Esau he would coming back on that, the way rumors were spread that he lost his head. In JB's first interviews after Feux de l'Amour release he would often being asked if those rumors were true or not. The conflict became only worser with the time going on and them at some point not talking to each other anymore

What was the problem initially about since the days of Anges Adorables? Was always about how the money was shared or who had the most authority in the group?

Also, do the members of Wenge Musica get royalties from the songs credited to their name? I'm not sure if they understood music publishing when they started music

Manzambi94 · **#10 on:** March 14, 2023, 23:19

Quote from: Wenge1995 on March 14, 2023, 22:05

Quote from: Mfumu Vata on March 14, 2023, 00:37
According to Elliot Mondombe there were already tensions since the days of Anges Adorables volume 1&2 but they still being together. The conflict got worse during the 1996-97 Europe about Wenge 4x4 either well or not recording an album and their staffs of Europe making it worser by reporting to both guys Werra said this about you, JB said this about you. The conflict became on higher level because of fashion. Every tour when Wenge 4x4 returns to Kinshasa they have a new look, for example Cris-Cros & Versace in 1993, Pentagone in 1996, the Kin E Bouger look in 1992, etc. Werrason and co decided to come with Japanese brands. JB wasn't there because of still being in Europe to finish his album. Then when JB returned to Kinshasa he imposed the "Bana Mindele" look. Masela & Werrason weren't happy with that. From then it became really war and the band being split in two. It was really difficult for the musicians. Because if you weren't in Werra & Masela's camp you had a problem as musician and the same if you weren't in JB's camp. Musicians then being spy and reporting to both musicians what they were saying about each other.

You had also an unhappy JB who was hurt, because of rumors being spread that he had lost his head and was tied up at home for occultism in order that Feux de l'Amour would get crazy succes. JB's camp accusing Werrason for spreading those rumors and being jealous of him. In the song Esau he would coming back on that, the way rumors were spread that he lost his head. In JB's first interviews after Feux de l'Amour release he would often being asked if those rumors were true or not. The conflict became only worser with the time going on and them at some point not talking to each other anymore

What was the problem initially about since the days of Anges Adorables? Was always about how the money was shared or who had the most authority in the group?

Also, do the members of Wenge Musica get royalties from the songs credited to their name? I'm not sure if they understood music publishing when they started music

Lol. Congolese-music it isn't Western music The SACHEM, ASCAP, BMI of Congo are corrupted and you will see people like Robinio get 10 20 times the amount that Tabu Ley family gets, the song credited to groups musicians especially nowadays are branded as song by the musicians but at the end of the day always the leader song, Vita Imana still a Werra song, Eternellement still a Koffi's song all the group album made by BCBG? (Jb's group not the full group with Werra etc.) All JB's songs

Mfumu Vata · **#11 on:** March 15, 2023, 01:51

Quote from: Wenge1995 on March 14, 2023, 22:05

Quote from: Mfumu Vata on March 14, 2023, 00:37
According to Elliot Mondombe there were already tensions since the days of Anges Adorables volume 1&2 but they still being together. The conflict got worse during the 1996-97 Europe about Wenge 4x4 either well or not recording an album and their staffs of Europe making it worser by reporting to both guys Werra said this about you, JB said this about you. The conflict became on higher level because of fashion. Every tour when Wenge 4x4 returns to Kinshasa they have a new look, for example Cris-Cros & Versace in 1993, Pentagone in 1996, the Kin E Bouger look in 1992, etc. Werrason and co decided to come with Japanese brands. JB wasn't there because of still being in Europe to finish his album. Then when JB returned to Kinshasa he imposed the "Bana Mindele" look. Masela & Werrason weren't happy with that. From then it became really war and the band being split in two. It was really difficult for the musicians. Because if you weren't in Werra & Masela's camp you had a problem as musician and the same if you weren't in JB's camp. Musicians then being spy and reporting to both musicians what they were saying about each other.

You had also an unhappy JB who was hurt, because of rumors being spread that he had lost his head and was tied up at home for occultism in order that Feux de l'Amour would get crazy succes. JB's camp accusing Werrason for spreading those rumors and being jealous of him. In the song Esau he would coming back on that, the way rumors were spread that he lost his head. In JB's first interviews after Feux de l'Amour release he would often being asked if those rumors were true or not. The conflict became only worser with the time going on and them at some point not talking to each other anymore

What was the problem initially about since the days of Anges Adorables? Was always about how the money was shared or who had the most authority in the group?

Also, do the members of Wenge Musica get royalties from the songs credited to their name? I'm not sure if they understood music publishing when they started music

Elliot never explained what the problem was. But it was not about money. It was probably one of those short conflicts that bandmembers always have when being in a group.

About royalties I remember Nyoka Longo once saying in one of his interviews during the Feeling-era, that he adviced Werrason and JB Mpiana to member part of SACEM or SABAM when meeting them in Europe back in 1992, at that time he was became head (or had an important function) at Soneca. They didn't really knew anything about royalties and they discovered from there that their exectutive producer of Kin E Bouge did them dirty. About Wenge 4x4 members outside the 4 admins getting their royalties from the songs they made. I don't think so, because l'actu du net made a few years ago a video where they went through SACEM documents and showed how bandleaders like Koffi Olomidé, JB Mpiana and co were crediting all songs to themselves and getting money from it.

archos · **#12 on:** March 15, 2023, 02:46

they argued about royalties because they were made to believe that makaba was getting huge royalties from the guy's song because he started crediting himself as composer of songs and all that,while if anything they had a lot of free or discounted sessions because of him in recordings since he knew owners due to his session work,while he was just filling the credits like he learned in europe and thats it since the group was not yet properly affiliated
and also the musicians were reporting payment issues to alain a lot who was already against the system of jb werra masela controlling too much of the money so there was a bit of friction about it but it cooled down quick with people stepping in with gifts and all that to calm musicians
you'll notice until today that every single of the simple members has the most absolute respect for makaba as he has always been "on their side",which helped lead the group with less drama than it happened since he was so often abroad
every of his returns were raising questions about the band which did not go with the usual kinshasa system(i mean that he was having a different mindset,based on what he learned in europe,the respect of structure and all that whereas the kin system just works depending on the mood of the leaders)

CM PRINCE · **#13 on:** March 15, 2023, 02:56

Quote from: archos on March 15, 2023, 02:46

they argued about royalties because they were made to believe that makaba was getting huge royalties from the guy's song because he started crediting himself as composer of songs and all that,while if anything they had a lot of free or discounted sessions because of him in recordings since he knew owners due to his session work,while he was just filling the credits like he learned in europe and thats it since the group was not yet properly affiliated
and also the musicians were reporting payment issues to alain a lot who was already against the system of jb werra masela controlling too much of the money so there was a bit of friction about it but it cooled down quick with people stepping in with gifts and all that to calm musicians
you'll notice until today that every single of the simple members has the most absolute respect for makaba as he has always been "on their side",which helped lead the group with less drama than it happened since he was so often abroad
every of his returns were raising questions about the band which did not go with the usual kinshasa system(i mean that he was having a different mindset,based on what he learned in europe,the respect of structure and all that whereas the kin system just works depending on the mood of the leaders)

If Makaba never settled in Europe and stayed in Kin would the system have been sharing with admins? Or would he have tried to change it still? It’s like every time he came back to Kin drama always happened, the Wenge split, the bcbg clash about the PPU’s.

Mfumu Vata · **#14 on:** March 15, 2023, 16:30

It thought that the question was about the conflict of Werrason against JB Mpiana. About the money it already started a long time again. After the 1990-91 tour, many musicians were unhappy about not paid well including JB Mpiana and Alain Makaba himself. JB Mpiana didn't mind, but Alain Makaba was really dissapointed because he had done hard work during the recordings of the album and also concerts because rhythm player Collegien ran away after 2 concerts. His uncle wanted him to stay in Europe to study music, but Makaba was first against it and being eager to return back. After that dissapointed he ended up by following his uncle's advice and went to settle in London. When Wenge came back in 1992 for a tour he joined them and participated to the recordings of Pleins Feux and Kalayi Boeing. At the end of tour many musicians were fustrated for not being paid well while the tour being a big succes, musicians like Désire Kalala and Don Pierrot Mbonda decided to stay. Alain Makaba was also mad because he also not paid well by the admins. In opinion of the admins, Makaba hadn't the right to be paid like them because he was in Europe while they were suffering in Kinshasa. Makaba then threatened to erase all his work in Kalayi Boeing & Pleins Feux and not return back to Kinshasa with them which scared the admins and made them pay more money.

I don't remember if it was the tour of 1994 or that of 1995. I think the one of 1995 and when the tour ended, one of the admins claimed that all the money got stolen by new jack gangsters in Brussels and the musicians couldn't pay. But the 3 admins ended up by buying mercedes benz cars

Author Topic: How would Kibuisa Mpimpa been with Wenge 4x4 ? (Read 1124 times)

Mfumu Vata on: March 13, 2023, 00:55

How would Kibuisa Mpimpa been with Wenge 4x4 ?

CM PRINCE #1 on: March 13, 2023, 01:28

Re: How would Kibuisa Mpimpa been with Wenge 4x4 ?

BienMat23 #2 on: March 13, 2023, 01:36

Re: How would Kibuisa Mpimpa been with Wenge 4x4 ?

archos #3 on: March 13, 2023, 01:55

Re: How would Kibuisa Mpimpa been with Wenge 4x4 ?

Mfumu Vata #4 on: March 13, 2023, 11:56

Re: How would Kibuisa Mpimpa been with Wenge 4x4 ?

archos #5 on: March 13, 2023, 14:10

Re: How would Kibuisa Mpimpa been with Wenge 4x4 ?

Franco Pepe Kalle #6 on: March 14, 2023, 00:17

Re: How would Kibuisa Mpimpa been with Wenge 4x4 ?

Mwanayaafrica #7 on: March 14, 2023, 00:19

Re: How would Kibuisa Mpimpa been with Wenge 4x4 ?

Mfumu Vata #8 on: March 14, 2023, 00:37

Re: How would Kibuisa Mpimpa been with Wenge 4x4 ?

Wenge1995 #9 on: March 14, 2023, 22:05

Re: How would Kibuisa Mpimpa been with Wenge 4x4 ?

Manzambi94 #10 on: March 14, 2023, 23:19

Re: How would Kibuisa Mpimpa been with Wenge 4x4 ?

Mfumu Vata #11 on: March 15, 2023, 01:51

Re: How would Kibuisa Mpimpa been with Wenge 4x4 ?

archos #12 on: March 15, 2023, 02:46

Re: How would Kibuisa Mpimpa been with Wenge 4x4 ?

CM PRINCE #13 on: March 15, 2023, 02:56

Re: How would Kibuisa Mpimpa been with Wenge 4x4 ?

Mfumu Vata #14 on: March 15, 2023, 16:30

Re: How would Kibuisa Mpimpa been with Wenge 4x4 ?