Author Topic: IN YOUR OPINION WHAT ARE SOME OF THE BIGGEST MISSED OPPORTUNITIES IN THE GENRE?  (Read 1499 times)

CM PRINCE on: March 21, 2023, 22:50

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Just a bit fun… what are some of the biggest missed opportunities in the genre? We can date all the way from Franco to now? It can be anything from albums, tours, groups, features

archos #1 on: March 21, 2023, 23:07

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wenge musica neglecting a bercy story before the split,i dont think there is many much bigger than that

Manzambi94 #2 on: March 21, 2023, 23:30

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Just a bit fun… what are some of the biggest missed opportunities in the genre? We can date all the way from Franco to now? It can be anything from albums, tours, groups, features
Brigade wasting his megafeat with Djadju, no feat with Booba, Shouting, Niska, Naza, Maitre Gims, Stromae, Dams9 and many other Congolese (Stromae Rwandais but he said many times he was inspired by Congolese music) Fesnch/Belgian artists that guy is so lazy, I wonder if he has any druve

Mfumu Vata #3 on: March 21, 2023, 23:57

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I may have forgotten alot. But these came on my mind


-Trio Madjesi et l'Orchestre Sosoliso live at l'Olympia Bruno Coquatrix (1975). Franco Luambo Makiadi couldn't accept of still not having performed at Olympia and after Tabu Ley & Abeti Masikini another act from Congo performing there. He did everything to plot against the band and he succeed. Sosoliso received a 6 months suspension and weren't allowed to perform anywhere (national and abroad). This made their show at Olympia being cancelled. Trio Madjesi wasn't able to pay their musicians and dancers since that they weren't performing anymore. Some went to join Tp Ok Jazz, other Afrisa, some stopped with music. The three leaders were really hurt. Loko Massengo decided to return to his home country Congo Brazzaville, Mario Matididi went to Angola (the country of his parents), late Saak Saakul (he passed away yesterday) went to Europe. Saak Saakul never forgot how his career was killed and years later during Franco's burial he started to mock and insult the body.

-Zaiko Langa Langa live at Zenith de Paris (1988) it got cancelled because of the split occured a few months before. Abeti Masinki was quick grabbed the opportunity of being the first Congolese artist to perform there

-Wenge El Paris vs Wenge Musica 4x4 Tout Terrain (1994)

TabaCongo offered both bands 15.000 dollars (back at that time it was big money) to perform against each other. Everybody waited for the event. But Wenge 4x4 refused. It would created a buzz like that of Zaiko Langa Langa vs Wenge Musica 4x4

fara-fara of Viva La Musica "Cour des Grands" vs Viva la Musica "Nouvelle Ecriture" (1998)

Both bands of Papa Wemba had to perform against each other in Paris. However, musicians like Stino, Gloria and co were against and said to Wemba that they would leave the band if the event would happen. Papa Wemba listened to them and decided to let only Cour des Grands perform, inviting only Bendoson and Pompom Miyake of Nouvelle Ecriture and Ivorian singer Meiway as guest star. Many people were informed about it and didn't show up, which made the show being a big flop. The concertpromoter was mad because of losing alot of money and wanting to beat Wemba. But Wemba then gave him a big headbutt and the concertpromoter falling down K.O. hahahahaha

-Koffi Olomidé live at Parc des Princes (2001)

the admininstration of complicating Koffi's management. They pushed it to 2002, then 2004 until Koffi and his management getting tired.

JB Mpiana live at Palais des Congres-Paris (June 2002)

JB Mpiana would be the first Congolese artist to perform there. It was promoted everywhere (MCM, RFI,..) The hall is bigger than Olympia and big stars perform there on rare occassion. Concertpromoter Felix Petit cancelled the event on the last minute. He was mad that JB suddenly asked him a big amount of money (after being adviced by Damien Dimonekene to do so).

-Papa Wemba & King Kester Emeneya - Disque d'Or (2002) The project dated from 1991 after the fara-fara's at Villejuif and Bataclan. But the project never came because of both guys asking a big amount of money and Congolese musicproducers not having that money. Years passed by and the project slowly dissapeard and Koffi quickly coming with Wake Up in 1996. However, many Clan-Viva fanatics in Europe weren't happy with the album because of the project being to much centered around Koffi. After Wemba's show at Forest National it came back and around 2000-01 JPS wanting to produce them both guys, the both guys wanting more money. In 2002 Wemba and Emeneya started to negotiate about it until Wemba messing up by coming with a revelation (private life) that made Emeneya really mad and not wanting to hear about the project again.

-Koffi Olomidé - Triple Olympia (2002)

It was scheduled for June 2002. But Felix Petit had problems with logisitcs and the hall wasn't rented on time, so it got pushed to August 2002. For whatever reasons it also didn't take place in August. Koffi Olomidé already had visa's and decided to do the planned Europe tours dates. The event was pushed to January 2003, but it still didn't take place and was replaced by a Zenith in April 2003

-Koffi Olomidé & Papa Wemba - Double Zenith 7th & 8th february 2003

Everybody in Paris, Brussels, Europe were happy. Finally!! the Wake Up concerts. Both bandleaders started to talk about the show and Wemba even visited one of Koffi's Europe concert with the fioti fioti's that stayed in Europe. But just one month before the event, Koffi decided to break the contract. The event got sadly cancelled.Coco Rubenga who was one of the guys behind the event would years later make several interviews to ask his money back from Koffi.

Werrason - Double Stade des Martyrs (2002)

Junior Mac Kenro planned it for March 2002. But Werrason wanted fully concentrate himself for the Double Zenith show. So they promised that it would come on the return of Wenge Maison Mere after finishing the Europe-tour. But sadly Junior Mac Kenro got financial problems after Koffi's event at Stade des Martyrs and even got death threats which made him move to Brazzaville to go back to the US. When Werrason came back the event didn't take place and he just did a show to prove JB Mpiana a point to break the record of public attendence at the stadium. In 2004 the project came back after Werrason winning 2 kora's at the 2004 edition. They wanted to celebrate it by planned a double event in december 2004, but the authorities were against and didn't want the irregularities that took place during his last show in jan 2003.

Koffi Olomidé vs Werrason at Elysee Montmartre (100 euros) July 2007. The event got cancelled a few days before the show. Werrason said that he couldn't peform because of not getting visa's for his band. But behind the scenes it was said that he was adviced by people around him to not perform on the same stage because of something bad being prepared against him. Badive was really mad against Werrason because he lost alot of money.

JB Mpiana vs Werrason at Stade des Martyrs (27 december 2007). The concert got cancelled on the last minutes by authorities because of security measures. Fans who were already inside the stadium got seriously beaten by soldiers.



Koffi Olomidé - 100 euros acoustic show at Theatre Gymanse Marie Bell (27 december 2008). The event was meant to present Cindy le Coeur. But Koffi Olomidé didn't receive visa's for his band. On the other side it was good that the event got cancelled, because the combattans planned to start the concertban against musicians on that day, being mad for the way Koffi performed in Rwanda while Laurent Nkunda just started war in Eastern Congo


fara-fara Fally Ipupa live at Zenith de Paris & Ferre Gola live at Olympia - 1 jan 2011

Both guys didn't receive visa's because of alot musicians having run away in Europe during their last europe tours. Fallly Ipupa tried still to performing by hiring musicians of Popolipo's band Les Makutanu. But he wasn't satisfied with the result so he decided to cancel his show. On Ferre Gola's side it there was no reaction and people discovered that the hall wasn't even rented. Ferre went to Brazzaville and performed at Residence Elonda.

archos #4 on: March 22, 2023, 00:14

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Mfumu Vata #5 on: March 22, 2023, 01:16

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bana ok live at olympia 2001.

pierre monzale wanted to organize a tour for them and a concert at olympia. they all received visa's and the musicians who were young serge kabangu (today a big sound engineer in paris), shakembo, niclette started to make noise on tv. only to see lutumba cancelling the project. it created tensions in the end and all musicians being frustrated and not understanding lutumba's decision. but simaro didn't want to experience a bad tour like that of 1998 which was not well organised. gerry dialungana who had

10 years ago a saw an old interview of the tour promoter on i think digitalcongo and himself saying that there's was no date for bana ok to perform at olympia yet and him waiting for bana ok to come to Europe and from there looking when they could perform at olympia. it was already a bad sign. they could have performed at olympia but "et apres?".


Longbluesquid #6 on: March 22, 2023, 03:00

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Promoting the music is a big one. Congolese failed to market themselves in the US and allowed other countries to essentially take over. A lot of Congolese albums failed on paper due to marketing.

Manzambi94 #7 on: March 22, 2023, 12:35

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Promoting the music is a big one. Congolese failed to market themselves in the US and allowed other countries to essentially take over. A lot of Congolese albums failed on paper due to marketing.
This, except for Fally Congolese leaders are terrible at marketing it is just fans caring about the leader/band supporting them, as I have said before Kylian Mbappe said "JB Mpiana Papa Cheri Tcheck" on Snapchat but JB just said Kylian Mbappe le footballer internazionali on a song who wasn't even the generique but lolee the 20th Sebene while an Artist with Marketing skills would have asked for Mbappe to partecipate on the video and share the so g on his social pofiles and with his teammates, imagine if that happened to Fally, Fally made our head so big with how he have performed with Gims, Gims here Gims that but JB no. And that's the synthesi of Comgolese music marketing just believing you are superiore to others and that the song will market itself, like when Seguin said in an interview " Man there are a lot of artist who keep making albums but even if JB is not making one he is still the number one " and things like that and I was like... what? Then don't get mad when peoole start to take Robinio more seriously then JB

Mfumu Vata #8 on: March 22, 2023, 13:28

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Promoting the music is a big one. Congolese failed to market themselves in the US and allowed other countries to essentially take over. A lot of Congolese albums failed on paper due to marketing.

Tabu Ley Rochereau and Franco Luambo Makiadi had succesfull tours in US and their shows were often highlighted in the press. Its due to those tours that Tabu Ley was put on the list of 200 best singers all time on the Rolling Stone list. Artists who were doing Soukous-music had also succesfull tours in the US. For Soukous-artists it was due to them having succes in English speaking African countries and people coming from those countries visiting their concerts. At that time you hadn't alot of Congolese people living in the US, most living in North Carolina. It was difficult/impossible to breakthrough in USA for African artists because they were seen as "Africans" and their music wasn't seen as mainstream otherwise Tabu Ley and Franco would done it a long time ago.



Artists coming from the following generation saw touring the US as a waist of time. Spending 6 months or 1 year abroad without getting big money and the risk of another band taking it over in Kinshasa. For example, many music-fans blame Zaiko Familia Dei for touring the US. They had huge succes when touring Europe and released their first LP l'Oiseau Rare which was a big succes in Kinshasa. But instead of returning back to Kinshasa to capatilize on the succes, they went to the US and Canada for concerts. After spending months there they went back to Brussels and all the succes was already finished. Zaiko Nkolo Mboka taking over everywhere with their album "Ici Ca Va" and all artists of Zaiko Familia Dei being broke because of not really gained anything in US financially, a part of the artists decided to stay in Europe. Bébé atalaku said in Sekele that Familia Dei's tour was a big mistake and that it was just tourism. There was another artists I dont remember from which band, who said that touring in US is a waist of time and just tourism.



In the late 90s to early 2000s all bandleaders were receiving contracts from US-tours of 1 year with the option of getting a 10 years work-permit for the US. They all refused prefering to do Zenith's, Olympia's & Bercy's and signing small contracts of 4/5 concerts (always boston, new york, charlotte, washington dc & atlanta) in the usa to prove rivals a point they also have been in the US. Some only prefering because of a big Congolese community living in Montreal. JB Mpiana was in 2001 close to sign that contract but declined on the last minute. Defao was the only artist to accept that contract and somewhere in 2002 the Congolese press blamed him for accepting it, saying that it killed his career.



Apparently the majority of the shows Koffi Olomidé did in 2003 in the US were big mpiaka's. They did more than 10 shows (going also to Miami, Los Angeles, Chicago,..). Journalist Garry Iwele who's based in US once interviewed dancer Patience Ibembo when she used to live in US and teased her with that. By saying y'all were able to do Bercy and Zenith but when coming here in the US, doing big mpiaka and both starting laughing about it.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2023, 13:41 by Mfumu Vata »

Mfumu Vata #9 on: March 22, 2023, 15:51

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Just a bit fun… what are some of the biggest missed opportunities in the genre? We can date all the way from Franco to now? It can be anything from albums, tours, groups, features

tshala muana - zenith de paris 2001

a camerounian concertpromoter called ebanga or something like that had to produce her at zenith de paris. the concertpromoter didn't rent the hall and ran away. it made tshala muana really sad and broke her heart. 13 years later she had to perform at zenith de paris at a festival called les diva d'afrique as main star. but she event got cancelled because of death threats coming from combattans.

jb mpiana - stade de france 2001.

after having performed at zenith & olympia. jb's staff and his musicians claimed that they would perform in 2001 at stade de france lol. animated it on the generique ya pas match. i'm sure that simon never contacted the admin of stade de france. when werrason was about to plan bercy, jb's fans said that he wasnt on his level and that they would perform stade de france the next year and jb mpiana doing world music after it. they also claimed that koffi copied them for planning a show at parc des princes. koffi was mad when he confronted with it and came with facts and the amount of renting parc des princes. wenge bcbg ended up going to bercy and never talked about stade de france again. they had the opportunity to perform there 2011 at the "nuit africaine" festival on the same stage with werrason, fally ipupa and jessy matador. however jb mpiana's people and jb himself were sleeping. late tshala muana also could go there but she was afraid for the combattans. she had a trauma for being seriously beaten by them in brussels

academia - olympia 2002

sam tshintu contacted the wrong people. those peoples were against academia and messed everything up by coming with a different list to every embassy. academia then being suspected for traffic of human beings (ngulu's). the show at olympia  and europe tour not taking place, sam tshintu having to escape, musicians like zamba la foret, mbetenge domingo, pitshou concorde, musika-sika, eric menthe, tonton lay, rocky blanchard, etc. all leaving for other bands.

wenge musica 4x4 - bue (1998)

the split that came and messed everything up. it has been said that simon ndjonang had a contract for zenith in his pocket for the following tour. alain mpela saying at bataclan "balobi to kutana bongo na zenith". looks like jb mpiana beneficied from it. on the other side its good the split came because otherwise jb, werra, adolphe would never reach the dimension they got. they would been like bimi ombale, dindo yogo, evoloko and nyoka longo.

jb mpiana - chemin de fer (2002)

it announced in 2000 with alot of noise. in 2001 internet wasn't on the market yet but jb mpiana-fans couldn't wait often screaming "11ème commandement, chemin de fer!!!!". in 2002 they started to record a part along with anti-terro version for ppus. but the problems to get visa's messed every thing up. it was pushed towards 2003. later on jb mpiana decided to fully concentrate on anti terro. when anti terro came out in september 2004, chemin de fer was announced for september 2005. in 2005 he changed his mind and wanted to work on a mini-album for bcbg to let singers who hadn't a song on anti-terro change. he called the project "balle de match". in 2006 the album-name was changed into kipe ya yo. in 2007 after releasing kipe ya yo he once again changed his mind and started to work on quel est ton probleme with being chemin de fer announced for 2009. coming in 2009, wanted to do another group-album naming it soyons serieux and chemin de fer having to follow it. in 2011 when releasing soyons serieux he finally promised that he would come with chemin de fer. but no. in 2012 he came with a project with started as a maxi-single naming it "balle de match", it ended up by becoming an album and came on market 10 years later.

ppu & jb mpiana - anti-terrorisme (2002)

a project of 10 songs. with jb mpiana having 2 songs and the remaining singers having each one (i'm not sure if back-up bass-player makosso police break having song). it had to be produced by rigo makengo. they started recording the album. but some bcbg-singers weren't happy. in the summer of 2002 they came back to kinshasa for a serie of primus-concerts but for whatever reasons they weren't able to return back to europe to finish the remaining-tours dates, chemin de fer and anti-terrorisme. on the same time some bcbg-members weren't happy and wanting to have songs on the album. it made jb mpiana give jdl, richard mukena and bikou le brun the opporunity to put songs on the album. after some months jb was still not able to get bcbg back in europe. he then decided to start recording a part in kinshasa and rework some parts recording in europe to add new cri's of gentamicine and cellulaire. he also changed the album name from anti-terroisme into anti terro. ater on the ppu's who already had spent almost 2 years in europe couldn't wait longer and decided to leave. all their songs were erased and alain mpela being given the opportunity to put 6 songs on the album. it got later shortened to 4 due to jealousy from other bandmembers.

jb mpiana & wenge bcbg - unreleased single for december 2002

seeing that he didn't hold his promise to fans of releasing anti-terroisme and chemin de fer in 2002. jb mpiana working a single (generique + 1 song). but when announcing it to fans, his fans were really mad to end 2002 without album and just a single. jb mpiana decided to stop the project and concentrate on anti-terrorisme which ended up by coming 2 years later lol.

werrason - miracles (2004)

it was first a project of 10 songs. he was probaly inspired by the way pastors were filling stade des martyrs and doing miracles by healing people. the album was announced for december 2003. but with jps production being closed, ngulu-affair of papa wemba and difficulties to get visa's in the schengen area it was not clear if it would be recorded in kinshasa or europe. it was pushed to 2004 and with the project of performing at stade de charletty it was pushed towards december 2004. not long after it, bill clinton, ferre gola and jus d'ete mulopwe decided to leave to form les marquis. it made album already different because bill clinton had many cris prepared. les marquis later  decided to piss werrason off by naming their album also miracles. werrason was forced to change the album name. he changed it into "temoignage des miracles" and later ended up by naming it "temoingnage"

werrason - live at stade charletty 2004

after performing at bercy. his staff started talking about performing at parc des princes like koffi olomidé. but they wanting to wait for koffi first. seeing that the step may be to big they went for a triple zenith for 2002, werrason before kibuisa mpimpa already starting to talk about it on mcm and rfi. it later became double zenith. after finishing double zenith, the desire of performing at a stadium came back. just before double zenith and after it, bill clinton already started talking about performing at stade de france soon and even animating about it in the song Fany. Seeing that the step would be to big, they were looking for a small stadium in Paris. in 2003 were working on it and they got a contract to perform at the stade charlety (capacity of 20.000 seats). in 2002 they already performed in the sporthall Charpy Sall which is inside the stadium having a capacity of 1.500 seats. i dont remember if it was eric lukasi or someone else but the production company was called sun africa and they were working in collaboration with universal africa. several african stars were contacted to be on the guest list (late jacob devarieux of kassav, youssou ndour, alpha blondy, brenda fasy, etc.) it was a strategy to lure a bigger crowd. the show was planned for july 2004, but the ended up by cancelling the show because of ferre gola, bill clinton and jus d'ete mulopwe leaving. the show was pushed towards the summer of 2005. but it didn't happen and after alerte generale nobody talk about the project anymore

ferre gola ft nyboma - 2005

when ferre gola came back in europe somewhere in spring 2005 to look for producers who would like to produce a dvd for the first show with his band les marquis des beau garcons, there was a project of him recorded a song with nyboma. but the project never happened and not long after that ferre ended up by joining quartier latin

awilo longomba - zenith de paris (2009)

the date was given. but the show didn't happen because the concertpromoter didn't pay the hall and nobody knowing it including awilo himself. and getting informed the same day of the event

=

SLK97 #10 on: March 22, 2023, 16:08

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I'd also mention that JB not signing with JPS was just as big a missed opportunity as the constant postponement of Chemin de Fer, even if JPS did get in trouble and shut down his label as a result.

CM PRINCE #11 on: March 22, 2023, 22:59

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I gotta say

Koffi dropped the ball with not releasing QL group album of Joss Jitrois and co, that could’ve changed things ALOT and the narrative could’ve been different.

Koffi not releasing the single with Les mineurs in 2007, would’ve been nice to have got that since there was a lot of talent in Les mineurs especially Deplick who could’ve said he sang on a Koffi album.

Alain Mpela not taking his solo career as serious as he should’ve

Mirage not returning to Kin despite being offered a contract after releasing his album.

Koffi not performing outside Palais du peuple, most his rivals performed there, Maison mere performed 3 times, Jb and even Academia performed with big crowds, he should’ve performed in late 99 or 2000.

Blaise Bula neglecting his music career especially after his comeback with Balia Ngando

Koffi olomide parc des princes.

Koffi Olomide and quartier latin reunion album in 2017, he invited every single QL member to participate and guys like Fally, Sam Tshintu, Bouro, Jipson and co were all confirmed to have songs on the album but it never ended up coming, especially because of the polémique with Koffi’s staff and Sam which messed everything up. 

Jb not releasing VHS clips for Feux de l’amour


Mfumu Vata #12 on: March 23, 2023, 00:23

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JB Mpiana never getting nominated for Kora Awards in 1999 and 2000 although the big succes of Titanic and TH in Africa.

Marie Paul signing with JPS Production. late Jean Pierre Saah saw a big potential in Marie Paul after seeing the VHS "Evenement Jaune" and wanted to sign him. Both guys already starting negotiating. But when coming in Europe, Marie Paul concerts were all flopping and people adviced him not to sign Marie Paul. Also another artist being involved (Jean Pierre not knowing that he was conflict with Marie Paul). After months waiting, Marie Paul decided to sign with Somina Nadim.

Wenge El Paris - Zenith de Paris (2002)

When Wenge El Paris came to Europe. Claude Mussay had the desire to produce them at Zenith de Paris the following tour. The first concert of tour which was at LSC was a flop and the following at Theatre Gymnase Marie Bell as well. It surpised him and other people since that Wenge El Paris had to reputation of being "ba kolo ya ba plein", having done l'Esplanade de Palais du Peuple and Stade 20 Mai several times. But there was still hope that the remaining concerts would go well. A few weeks after it  KO Debout "Carte Jaune" came out. To present the new album, he let Wenge El Paris perform at Cabaret Sauvage which is in front of Zenith de Paris. He associated Joel Photo Mbetenge to the event, who was in conflict with Werrason for a moment after Bercy (Mbetenge was good in promoting big events) and also Koffi Olomidé who was the guest star. The concert was a historic mpiaka. Nobody showed up only friends and family-members. This made Claude definitively stop the project and not long after it he got jailed for a moment after getting snitched. Wenge El Paris itself never returned back to Kinshasa and most musicians deciding to leave. Years later when Marie Paul managed to escape DR Congo where his life was in danger after singing for presidential candidate Etienne Tshisekedi, he was still dreaming about performing there and his staff where talking about behind the scenes. The combattans sadly didn't hold the promise of letting him performing in Europe (combattans first promised that any artist singing for Tshisekedi would be free to perform in Europe), them being divised between those totally against concerts and those who were for it, also people who supported Ngbanda and others Tshisekedi.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2023, 00:29 by Mfumu Vata »

Mfumu Vata #13 on: March 23, 2023, 00:23

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I gotta say

Koffi dropped the ball with not releasing QL group album of Joss Jitrois and co, that could’ve changed things ALOT and the narrative could’ve been different.

Koffi not releasing the single with Les mineurs in 2007, would’ve been nice to have got that since there was a lot of talent in Les mineurs especially Deplick who could’ve said he sang on a Koffi album.

Alain Mpela not taking his solo career as serious as he should’ve

Mirage not returning to Kin despite being offered a contract after releasing his album.

Koffi not performing outside Palais du peuple, most his rivals performed there, Maison mere performed 3 times, Jb and even Academia performed with big crowds, he should’ve performed in late 99 or 2000.

Blaise Bula neglecting his music career especially after his comeback with Balia Ngando

Koffi olomide parc des princes.

Koffi Olomide and quartier latin reunion album in 2017, he invited every single QL member to participate and guys like Fally, Sam Tshintu, Bouro, Jipson and co were all confirmed to have songs on the album but it never ended up coming, especially because of the polémique with Koffi’s staff and Sam which messed everything up. 

Jb not releasing VHS clips for Feux de l’amour

Koffi Olomidé could have performed at l'Esplanade in 2000. The original project was to go back to Stade des Martyrs and take revenge for flop of 1999. But the stadium was sadly closed for concerts since Werra's event there. The concert-promoter decided to go for Palais du Peuple. But you had pastors who also wanted to hold a event there on the same date that Koffi and his concertpromoter planned. To avoid conflicts with pastors and knowing that christians already gave him the label of satanist, Koffi decided to let the contract go. Instead looking another date for the coming weeks Koffi went for a concert at Salon Congo in Grand Hotel de Kinshasa and Cinemax. He was probably doubting about getting a big crowd there

Seben_Maniac #14 on: March 23, 2023, 03:14

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Why did Wenge El Paris flop so hard in the early 2000s? We’re they just not as good as the other bands? That’s what I would think