Author Topic: Why did/have artists stopped doing sebene?  (Read 7878 times)

CM PRINCE on: June 23, 2016, 03:21

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this has been really bothering me for the past 10 years why is every congolese artist favouring rhumba over sebene Koffi the main example ever since danger de mort he doesn't do sebene anymore and JB and Werra another example cause back in the 4x4 days and early maison mere and bcbg days they always did more sebene then rhumba so why is everyone following the rhumba ratio and most importantly is there a chance sebene may come back properly just like the old days? answers please

Matebu #1 on: June 23, 2016, 04:11

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Back in '04 Tabu Ley criticized Koffi for loosing his tcha tcho identity. The older musicians and journalists were stating that the 3-4 gen artists were doing too much dance music to be taken seriously. Koffi took the criticism personally and vowed to have much more Tcha tcho in next album (Monde arabe). Originally when Monde arabe was first announced in '02-'03 it was supposed to have the same structure as Effrakata.

Koffi has long been the de facto trendsetter, so following Monde arabe artists followed suit. Fans were initially disappointed by the lack of sebenes, but the album grew on people over time because of the quality of the rhumbas.

Also, donors nowadays strongly prefer to have the songs they purchase to be rhumbas.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the last significant album with equal parts sebene/rhumba was Werra's Témoignage.

In my opinion, artists should have found a middle ground, rather than eliminating sebenes, which have led to the numerous 95% rhumba albums released over the last 10 years. It's the generiques and sebene songs that have greatly aided the artists in becoming big stars. F'victeam seems to heading back to old days with well done sebene songs. Alvarito Solo's Rosendan for example
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 04:30 by Matebu5 »

Jdog #2 on: June 23, 2016, 04:53

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Yeah they should go back to at least having more generiques in albums and it's the donors it seems who prefer rhumba songs then sebene songs.
Or moto asala le monde eza yo Nzambe tata, Kita okata po mokili trop matata, kata- Fally Ipupa

Seben_Maniac #3 on: June 23, 2016, 05:47

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It really pains me that they don't anymore. I despise rhumba(only like it when is has a little nice sebene to it) now because I realized it must be easier for the artists to create. It just seems like they got lazy. Sebene was what made congolese music for me and it's pretty underwhelming that it's overlooked by them now. Why did koffi have to listen to those lame journalists? I really wanted to see how the original monde arabe would have been. There's a reason why koffi and many other Congolese artist had their best albums from the mid 90s to the early 2000s. Bring back the sebene!

EMOVICTEAM #4 on: June 23, 2016, 08:12

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The problem largely has been lack of upcoming bands that are hungry to make dosh (cash) and fight to be famous. The dependence on bcbg, QL and WMM as the only bands to support the industry in Congo, has killed it. Ok we have Fvicteam but lets be honest that band is fally. We need new groups like the way wenge musica and Extra musica mushroomed. That way, the temperature starts to go up. Lastly, this has been made worse by koffi olomide who is in every artist's head. You will see now everyone will now do a similar song structure like selfie.

archos #5 on: June 23, 2016, 08:31

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i would not even say its solely koffi who is behind it,i would say its the shift towards a more solo-like career for all our leaders which also lead indirectly to the phenomenon of generation fally ferre
if you pay attention very well,the group's still existed and exist but from 2004 there was a lot of focus on the leader to the extent than even group albums were seen as leaders' albums
so since leaders now had more pressure on their shoulders they felt need to prove worth with rumbas
rumbas were not neglected in the past but were put in strategic positions on cd's in order to be balanced with sebene songs and then be noticeable due to being  at best equal to the number of sebene
the problems with ngulu affair and debut of problems with combattants lead to the musician adopting a much more commercial approach of music
so to make more money,they had to have less freedom of playing their music,in the past it was "masta or vieux,i'll do a song to thank for all the good things you did to me" and the person had zero influence on how the song would be in most cases, so it was a good mix of rumba which is the old school music and the zaiko wenge style
and the success of monde arabe and arrival of karmapa from nowhere with beautiful and succesful rumbas for influent donors paved way for that change
i remember ferre for example saying how pissed joao ndombele was that his song was a sebene one in qui est derriere toi
people were demanding rumbas and a polemic had started about leaders proving they can sing instead of relying on their "children"

archos #6 on: June 23, 2016, 08:44

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emo its impossible to make a new band today like in the past,first because there are not anymore donors who have that love of picking guys from bottom and taking them to glory,now they prefer where there is already some glory which is why those who already have success have hundreds of donors who are stuck between them as all of them including artists are about the same interest,money and fame
also like said above,musicians nowadays are more about individual glory and ego,for example academia guys they are all now mature enough to reunite and avoid mistakes of the past but they do not do it because they know it will explode within max one year because people will say X is the leader,then he'll start bullying other ones and childish stuff like that
also lets be very honest,the guys from koffi to the generation of fally ferre no way on earth they'll let a group popping out of nowhere with ambition and a lot of talent  and put pressure on them, absolutely no way,they'd disband it quick
i dont want to give names and i dont really remember anyways but trust me a couple of bands have been disbanded clean and quick in the shadows of industry in the recent years as leaders heard there was group x or y starting to be promising at some festivals or invited by sponsors before their stars step on stage
 their best musicians have for most been taken into our current groups with a leader who is in another galaxy to the rest of the group

Matebu #7 on: June 23, 2016, 08:56

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and the success of monde arabe and arrival of karmapa from nowhere with beautiful and succesful rumbas for influent donors paved way for that change
i remember ferre for example saying how pissed joao ndombele was that his song was a sebene one in qui est derriere toi
people were demanding rumbas and a polemic had started about leaders proving they can sing instead of relying on their "children"

^ My memory is a bit blurry, didn't seigneur Ley strongy praise Karmapa in one his interviews regarding the rhumbas of his first album? It seemed to really annoy Koffi, although he saw him as a nobody then (2004-5 or so).

mvulusi96 #8 on: June 23, 2016, 09:21

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and the success of monde arabe and arrival of karmapa from nowhere with beautiful and succesful rumbas for influent donors paved way for that change
i remember ferre for example saying how pissed joao ndombele was that his song was a sebene one in qui est derriere toi
people were demanding rumbas and a polemic had started about leaders proving they can sing instead of relying on their "children"

^ My memory is a bit blurry, didn't seigneur Ley strongy praise Karmapa in one his interviews regarding the rhumbas of his first album? It seemed to really annoy Koffi, although he saw him as a nobody then (2004-5 or so).
yes, Tabu Ley said that he saw Karmapa as his potential replacer instead of Wemba & Koffi from who he was very dissapointed

archos #9 on: June 23, 2016, 09:33

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the same koffi (maybe to attract karmapa into maisha and do him a "wazekwa") called karmapa through donors to tell him he was the guy who he sees as his heir so he would like them to become friends but karmapa rejected joining maisha and since then they have been into zero contact

Bepari2016 #10 on: June 23, 2016, 09:34

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The meaning of" combattants " pse? Literaly it means fighters,n' est ce pas?

CM PRINCE #11 on: June 23, 2016, 14:07

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Back in '04 Tabu Ley criticized Koffi for loosing his tcha tcho identity. The older musicians and journalists were stating that the 3-4 gen artists were doing too much dance music to be taken seriously. Koffi took the criticism personally and vowed to have much more Tcha tcho in next album (Monde arabe). Originally when Monde arabe was first announced in '02-'03 it was supposed to have the same structure as Effrakata.

Koffi has long been the de facto trendsetter, so following Monde arabe artists followed suit. Fans were initially disappointed by the lack of sebenes, but the album grew on people over time because of the quality of the rhumbas.
no disrespect to tabu ley but he shouldn't have said anything cause him saying that killed the sebene formula and koffi shouldn't have taken the bait and eliminating sebene, plus I didn't really like monde arabe i thought it was okay but not excellent no way
and everyone needs to stop with that coup decalle crap its very annoying koffi's the worst
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 14:35 by CM PRINCE »

archos #12 on: June 23, 2016, 15:07

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funnily enough the older generation discouraged koffi and clan wenge to continue with a lot of sebene saying it was noise and rumba was the true music,but todays generiques and sebenes are millions times more "noisy" than those of the past

Jdog #13 on: June 23, 2016, 16:56

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How can musicans say they want Congolese music to grow if they would disband a group?? If they do that to a group then maybe they might do it to a solo artist.
Or moto asala le monde eza yo Nzambe tata, Kita okata po mokili trop matata, kata- Fally Ipupa

Matebu #14 on: June 23, 2016, 17:53

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How can musicans say they want Congolese music to grow if they would disband a group?? If they do that to a group then maybe they might do it to a solo artist.

Keep in mind a number of the same critical older musicians, predominantly Zaiko alumni were behind the disbandment of the many young groups of the late 90's - 2000s. It was way for them to sustain power despite not being as active on the scene as they once were.

Example - Sam Tshintu said in an interview that the direct influence of Wemba on some members in Academia led to disintegration of the group. As we also know his close relations with JB did not fair well for the future of Wenge 4x4. Additionally, he is attributed to the breakup of Tshala and MJ30.

We see posts almost daily of how one artist is undermining another artist through insults and taking their musicians. Behavior that isn't encouraging for the re-growth of the genre.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 17:56 by Matebu5 »