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Messages - BrazzaBoy

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It was so weird to me when I heard about Shora Mbemba. It was like listening to every song I’d ever heard because of all the animations that other people had used and made famous. Very weird experience for someone that wasnt familiar with his work. Wonder how come him and Radja Kula didnt become more famous.

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Finally some footage of Bana Odeon. Never actually seen what they looked like or what they sounded like but seems as if every atalaku in the sun was formed there from what I always hear.

Under african skies can never be topped I dont think. Unless someone does some deep deep research on the golden years, but I doubt anyone is gonna be able to pull unseen footage from those years. Great documentary and very informative I watched it about 5 years back maybe thats why I missed the Odeon part.

Crazy how you can almost see the future of someone when they’re still child though

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Yeah congrats to her, kind of weird Werra didn't go but sent Sankara and Nicodem. I'm sure she would've wanted her Dad.
He’s in Kenya. Making money so his daughters can go to school. Do you know how much school costs for one semester in the states? Ok then.

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Congolese Music / Re: FALLY... STOP IT, PLEASE!
« on: May 16, 2018, 14:04 »
At his age, his former boss was making the best music of his career. But this guy is busy stuntin' on social networks and getting gassed up by his fans for the average music he's making.
100% correct, Effrakata was done when Koffi was in his 40s which is Fally's current age, I'm waiting for his upcoming album to judge him musically.
True but both him and ferre haven't produced classics like effrakata, v12, kibuisa, th, feux de l'amour, damnnn I could go on, their music is just average
Can you really say that about Ferre though? He’s been way more consistent than fally in my opinion

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Congolese Music / Re: Which movie would you wanna see?
« on: May 12, 2018, 19:43 »
Zaiko !

Zaiko gave the genre too many legends !

Exactly. Thats how I feel. That movie could be epic if it could be a big production and end up on netflix. So many came from the Zaiko school it would be easy to do sequels. But I think a movie until the first split, would be epic in itself.

Franco would be my second choice because there were so many events in his life

Wenge idk if it would be a good movie because there wasnt that many life events in their 4x4 days other than the one guy that died (God bless his soul, forgot his name) and the Saddam Hussein events. And I’m sure members of Wenge wouldnt wanna talk about the Saddam Hussein events or have those events on the big screen.
Maybe if they did a movie on Wenge from Pentagone to the split, with the breakup and the money issues and both leaders having to make new teams more so werra but yeah.

After reflection I would rather see a Werrason movie rather than a Wenge 4x4 movie. A movie from the beginning when it was just him masela and aime bwanga jean bedel. It could include when they recruited Jb mpiana, the split with aile paris, then the dry years, pentagone, the split with BCBG, how he was left for dead, recruitment of Bill and the others all the way until Solola Bien. That would be something.

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Ouch ;D waiting to see what the reply will be but holy shit Paysan. Glad im not on the other hsnd of that debate lol it’d be hard to come with a rebuttal to this

He’s in the minority. I don’t know what’s funnier, the fact that he’s only arguing with me but everyone else has come to the same conclusion about the sebene, or the fact that I can tear down every thing he says and he’ll come back with opinions rather than facts. It’s like the GOP defending Donald Trump on TV. It’s no longer worth my time. He can keep the boring rhumbas with no sebene. People like what they like. Where is Adoyo when I need him lol

Lol go ahead then. Im curious to see your rebuttal. I love good debates, and I cant even remember what you guys are arguing but the last one of his messages did have a lot of great logical points.

I personally love both rumbas and sebenes so I dont have a dog in this fight. Just a fan of good healthy debates.

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Having white members on a forum does not mean white people listen to our music. I know white people who like pondu but I'll never say that white people like to eat our food. You're turning anecdote into rule. Congolese music was never popular among westerners. The fact that some white people with a big curiosity were interested in our music does not change that. Our music was popular in Congo and Africa. The average african man listened to congolese music. The average westerner did not know about it or did not care about it. This is like saying that Africans listened to Johnny Haliday. It's not true, even though you'll find some Africans who listened to him.

You're putting words in my mouth.  I never said white people as a whole listen and enjoy African music.  My point was, don't think that the music was only listened to in Africa.  Franco's Live in Holland album should be proof. If you check out his set lists when he performed there, all of his songs were danceable with major emphasis on the sebenes.  Franco knew who to cater to. Despite what Tabu Ley said, he too knew who to cater to when he was outside of Africa. White people can't understand songs like Jugement or Mauvais Temps, it does nothing for them because they don't understand Lingala. If the sebene wasn't/isn't important, why is it being copied and duplicated all over Africa? You can hear it in Afro Pop and Coupe Decale.

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You're listing songs with sebens, but you can't prove that Franco success came from those seben. If the seben was so important why in most cases the seben part was smaller than the rumba part ? And how many pure seben songs back then ? A lot of songs also did not have seben. You can't prove that seben is what drove people outside of Congo to listen to our music. It's something people always claimed but they can't prove it.

Once again you're putting words in my mouth.  I never said Franco's success came from sebene.  His success came from nkisi (I'm kidding). All jokes aside, you're right, some songs didn't have sebene, but it was rare.  There was a story in another forum told by PC Mpondolo, I think, about Papa Noel wanting to play solo like the guitarists in Zaiko and the other younger bands but Franco told him to keep it simple and it worked.The reason why the sebene was shorter? They all had messages. Those songs were carefully arranged and crafted. You also have to look at the times.  We didn't have CDs or MP3s back then.  Candidat Na Biso Mobutu, is over 20 minutes long and had to be broken up into two sides on an EP.

But I ask you again, why don't we have white people commenting on this forum, compared to 10 years ago? It's because after Sens Interdiet and Droit Chemin, the music changed. Too many of them, some whom I am still friends with to this day, will tell you that the music sounds too R&B and nothing for them to dance to. I let one of them listen to Marlene de Reve by Watanabe and told him to listen for OK Jazz elements and he told me he couldn't get past the R&B. Just out of curiosity, how long have you lived outside of Africa?

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Once again, the seben of the 60's is way different from what we call seben today.

You're busy trying to argue with me, but I've been saying this ALL along. The definition is definitely skewed. Fact of the matter is, whether it is a generique or in a rhumba, a sebene is a sebene, no matter how you try to spin it.

You're the one who started talking about white people/europeans. The debate I had with CM Prince was about whether seben was the main thing that attracted people outside of Congo to our music.

When you start talking about congolese music being played outside, we're talking about Africa. That's our field. Our music is not played in Europe. It's not played in mainstream radio; it's not played in mainstream shows on TV. It will appear from time to time when they want something "exotic". Talking about white listeners of our music is basically an anecdote.

You brought Franco's performance in Utrecht, it was a festival, not a concert. The only time you'll see african musicians playing african music in front of huge crowd of white people is in festivals. That's it. Of course, Franco gave them "shake your ass" music. That's the caricatural vision the average casual european listener has when it comes to african music. I'm sure most of these guys in that Utrecht show could not tell you the difference between Franco and Fela Kuti. And when the festival was done, they went back listening to Led Zepelin and Pink Floyd.

When Koffi was at his peak, when he was the biggest african musician, he filled bERcy and the crowd was 90% (maybe more) african. How many time a congolese musician charted in Europe ?

In reality, europeans who really listen to congolese music, the same way africans do, are extremely rare. It's a niche.

So when we're talking about congolese music being played outside, we are talking about Africa. That's it. Talking about white listeners or white commentators is irrelevant.


Ouch ;D waiting to see what the reply will be but holy shit Paysan. Glad im not on the other hsnd of that debate lol it’d be hard to come with a rebuttal to this

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Bencurri the youtube legend. I was so happy to see he was part of this forum.

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Whats these other forums you guys speak of

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Congolese Music / Which movie would you wanna see?
« on: May 08, 2018, 19:24 »
This might have been brought up already Im sure but in the same lane as Get Rich or Die Trying, 8 Mile, Ray, The Temptations, the Jackson 5 series and other biographical movies; what movie from our culture would you really really wanna see? Maybe its a story you know about but feel you dont know enough about.

I personally would love to see the Zaiko story. The very beginning the creation until the first couple splits. I dont too much care to know what happened in the 80s and 90s but would love to see a movie about how the founders met each other, how much work they had to individually put in, the strength of each member, who came up with the first couple songs, that type of thing.

Think it would also be good because after that it could lead into another Papa Wemba movie, that would be closer to his life than La Vie Est Belle.

I think Franco’s story would be interresting as well, from moving to Kin and learning how to play the guitar to starting to sing in a few bands all the way until Franco would be a fantastic story I think. With all the trials and tribulations, prison, the first defections from OK, the guys from Bantou, Youlou, Madilu, his relationship with Papa Simaro Lutamba.



(Maybe in 10 years we can all get together, pick a story, write it and do everything we can to make it possible, because if we wait.... lol no telling how long it would be, but wither way would love to see those beautiful stories on the screen, doesnt even have to be the big screen)

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Congolese Music / Re: IS THIS BLAISE ELEMENT LOL
« on: May 08, 2018, 12:24 »
Are you guys sure thats blaise element?

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Anybody got songs of il fallait kaka or those other groups of the 4th generation ?

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Congolese Music / Re: Slavery
« on: May 06, 2018, 18:23 »
Nah we werent lied to. I just read an account of one of the people that was on the last slave ship that illegally made it to america because it was after slavery was abolished. It was a 19 year old man at the time that lived in Benin and got kidnapped by dahomians which is a neighboring tribe. He recalled the events how they happened, how he got on the boat, how they were on the boat, how long the trip took and how all the people on the boat had grew acustomed to each other and then had to be ripped away from each other again. Terrible story but it was a first account story. Which makes sense since we’ve always been told the white man didnt go far into africa and just got men off the coast, which would mean that maybe there were tribes or groups of men(black men) specialized in that business.  After capturing people they would bring them to the coast, if thats the case and if its true. Which makes sense because in our country De Brazza and Stanley didnt discover the heart of the congo until 1880 or so, the french and belgium had no knowledge of anything that was not off the coast.


We’re all from different tribes here, can any of yall recall hearing any stories of your tribe holding a grudge against another tribe for being involved in the kidnappings? Thats really the only way we can get this whole slavery thing behind us is if we get first account stories, those books and stories about the King and Kingdom of Kongo aint gonna do us no good. We need accounts from real families or tribes that lost people, because those stories about King such and such doing such and such treaty with such and such King of Portugal... That could all be baloney.  Those stories could have been manipulated, yall see how the media is today, im sure it was no different back then, hence why we need real stories, real acccounts, hence why I asked if anybody heard any stories from their elders in the village.


Im not saying lets point the finger at each other, but even for us that are african it’d be good to figure out our own history from our own people not from what the portuguese wanted us to know. Because there are thousands of tribes now, and that might be a direct  result of slavery. Groups that went hiding into the jungle for 100s of years for fear of being caught that developed new languages over time which could have overtime developed into new tribes. And living in the jungle/on the run could be the reason why we dont have a lot of history left, even though all of africa had great kingdoms all over. When you run in hiding you dont get to bring pieces of history with you or none of that, your past gets erased, so that might have divided us even more if thats true. Hence why we have to get to the bottom of what really happened. Because only in africa will you find one country with a 100 different groups that speak a 100 different languages, I think the reason for that is all those different groups that had to go seperate ways to eacape kidnappings. But I could be 1000% wrong.


But it does look like we were involved and does look like the were groups of black men specialized in the business. Im all over the place but thats because this is a sensitive subject for me because I live in the united states and it greatly pains me to see what our brothers had to go thru, and still have to go thru. Also pains me to see Africa still struggling, and the reason for us struggling still could be tied to us having lost our teachers, skilled workers, artist, craftmans, warriors, to the transatlantic slave.

And I think if we were involed in it we have to look at ourselves in the mirror face our demons and figure out how we can help our brothers in Brazil, Haiti, USA, Jamaica and such.
Also wish we could get more insights, if we were talking about A new koffi scandal or jb vs werra this thread would be 5 pages long. Maybe thats why we cant move forward, because we rather dance and sing all the time and focus our energy on those things instead of just trying to put our heads together for the common good of the black man. But nah we rather talk about Fabregas new interview and I undertand this is a congo music forum but come on brehs. But like i said I could be 10000% wrong and simply overreacting so apologies if I offend anyone, I’m just trying to understand why things are the way they are. So now back to regular programming, we can all go back to werra vs jb or whatever else is popping/trendy today I guess right? Lol smh

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Holy shit  ;D  Thats the thing about having french as a second language not everybody controls nuances. He might have not even meant in in a rude way but holy moly lmfao “...j’aime les plantes” took me out hahaha

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Congolese Music / Re: Slavery
« on: May 05, 2018, 16:29 »
Damn man. We could never right that wrong. I understand their disdain for us now

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