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Messages - faithandwar

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61
Thats a good question I have asked myself often regarding the afro cubans influence. I have wondered how do we know for sure Afro cuban music is from african influences. Not sure if its more the instruments or the rythm that give it an african resemblance. Hopefully one of the more experienced poeople on the forum can make the connection for you young brother.

If you would like to further understand how it evolved into what it is now you would have to take it from the source, take it from the beginning and work your way up. You’d wanna start at the very very beginning with Wendo Kolosoy, Bowane, Joseph Kabasele and work your way up. That should kind of show you how it evolved.


Now with the copying of our music its hard to say because our music is a blend of different sounds from different places in the first place, including west africa. Afrobeat doesnt too much sound like our music but Coupe Decale at the time was a blatant copy. I do however understand your frustration towards our artist leaning more towards afrobeats at times. Times are hard, no concerts in europe, and wanting to target bigger markets are all factors.

Yeah definitely, I've heard Marie Lousie by Wendo but that's about it. But thanks for the other artist's you've reccomended, I think I know Kabasele because of Independence Cha Cha and his influence on Franco& Tabuley.

 I was definitely trying to get to on how different off shoots of genres like Ndombolo, Tcha-Tcho and Sebene came from that Afro-Cuban influence. There's not a lot articles in English about our music from the late 80's to the early 2000's and it's evolution. 

As far as West Africans being influenced by our music, it's just something iv'e heard from family around me, I just wanted to know how. Was it something in structure/arrangement, instruments, etc? How did they copy us and get away with it?

Also, I know it's a male dominated forum but I'm a girl lol.   

62
That I have already heard is that our music (rumba) does not come from Cuba as we are taught. The Rumba comes from a dance called Kumba, originating from our Bantu ancestors from Central Africa (Kongo empire, Gabon ...) and they imported with them during the slave trade into the tobacco fields. The Cubans will resume our dance by renaming it Rumba.

I put you some articles explaining better than me the origin of our dear rumba: http://www.nzolani.net/spip.php?rubrique1

RUMBA IS THE DANCE OF OUR ANCESTORS AND NOT CUBAN !

Thanks for the link!

I've always heard that Rumba made its way back to us from our Ancestors so I'll definitely get reading.

63
West african influence in the birth of our music ? How ?

When I listen to Wendo & Bowane, Paulo Kamba, Lucie Eyenga, Adou Elenga and others I don't hear that west african influence ?

Are you sure about that ?

I don't think you read my question right, I wanted to know how they were influenced by us, not the other way around. I'm not saying that our music was influenced by West Africans.

64
So i've been trying to learn as much as I can about our music through this forum as of recently, and I'm so thankful for it.

I've constantly heard about how other countries have been directly influenced and put their different spin on our music growing up, especially with West Africans. I'm not trying to start an all out music war against different countries, but it's curiosity. It bothers me a bit to see some of our artists reducing their artistry to follow the diluted trend of Afrobeat, when we're the trendsetters from what I understand. As well as not widely known for it globally. 

But also how has the influence of Afro-Cuban music evolved into where our music was at it's prime? But technically doesn't Afro Cuban music come from Central Africa?

So back to the main question, whats's the history of the rest of the continent rebranding our music?
 Any specific examples, timelines, stories?



65
You would think that because he was in both in the Wenge and QL camps he would have learned to make killer generiques and have a HUGE advantage over his rival. :/

I'm still a fan of his voice tho.

66
Congolese Music / Re: Music of our Parents
« on: March 05, 2018, 20:09 »
My parents grew up in the time of Franco/OK JAZZ and Tabu Ley, Zaiko, Papa Wemba/Viva La Musica. I'm pretty sure when La Vie Est Belle came out in 87' they were in High School.

But growing up being a 90's baby as well, it was mostly a Wenge (MM x BCBG) and Koffi household, but my dad pretty much played a good chunk of everything. I heard Kester, Papa Wemba, Moses Fan Fan, Pepe Kalle, Tabuley.. a lot more.

  I really think Penagone by 4X4 was like a soundtrack for the Congolese community emigrating to the US at the time, like a coming of age and youth culture kinda thing. I was more attached to Werrason Maison Mere more than anything, especially the first generation line up. They almost seemed too good to be true. I played the Solola Bien, Operation Dragon and A queue la Leu leu VHS tapes to death kiekiekie. I'm pretty sure I tuned out BCBG considering I don't remember much about JB. Lots of Makoma, Matou Samuel when my uncle came to the states, I really got into Franco/OK Jazz my 1st year of HS. 


67
Congolese Music / Re: Fally Ipupa
« on: February 28, 2018, 07:29 »
Droit Chemin is the only album that I can play front to back from Fally and not really skip anything.
I wasn't really feeling the Tokoos album at all. A good chunk of his vocals are autotune and musically it didn't blow my mind. I couldn't stand it. Its like whoever is running Warner France thought, let's stick him in an AfroBeat box. Which is incredibly annoying, because that's not our music. Hopefully no one takes offense, but Nigerians have the privilege of speaking English which is easier for them for them connect with a larger fan base. Plus West Africans generally have a more solid infrastructure than most Africans. Congolese music is sophisticated and extremely influential, I don't personally feel that AfroBeat can match that level of sophistication. Sorry. But back to Fally, he knows how to figure out connections and market himself which lots of other DRC musicians can learn, but at the same time he's signed to Universal. Not everyone will get that chance to be signed onto a big label like that. But he needs to get back to who he is artistically. Hopefully he'll do just that with the Rumba album and keep it under 20 tracks.

68
Congolese Music / Re: STRUCTURE OF CONGOLESE ORCHESTRA
« on: February 24, 2018, 23:05 »
So from '97-2004 during the first generation of WMMM, Ferre wasn't both the Golden Child and the Chef D'Orchestre?

69

 Does anyone know if any of the original bands members are getting royalties from their previous work with Maison Mere? Or is it's a foreign concept to them? 

lol, no. That's royalites is a foreign langage to MM ex-members. They were barely getting scrap payments in the band. If it weren't for benevolent donors, most would have had nothing to really live on.

Early on Ferre and the rest were walking long distances to concerts, while Werra was being chauffered in Benzes. Meanwhile, they were the ones who made Maison Mère what it is. Whith out them, Werra would have left DRC in 1998 and settled in Montreal, Canada, no longer a musician.

Quote
It also sounds like Japonais had a huge part in arranging the music and left with nothing except gifts. Did I read that right?

Yup. You read that right.
THE HELL?!
Ugh, sorry for the excessive questions but there's just an overwhelming of information on this board. Thanks. I had no clue Werra azalaki lokoso ya mbongo. It's upsetting but really unsurprising considering the corruption at every angle.

Is there a thread on the specifics of how business works between artists and distribution/record deals? Specifically Diego Music, Sonodisc and JPS? Because I know people are still buying these albums, it's more on how much if these artists are given for royalties and if they're given at all. And considering that Kabila is bribing musicians I'm guessing it's very little. Plus piracy is at an all time high in DRC. Where the hell is the Prime Minister of Music?

70
Woah at this thread. This is all too shocking to me. It's pretty much corruption at every level. This is the first time i'm hearing about these practices of punishing band members in such a way physically and financially. Does this happen in 90% of our Congolese bands? Plus how do you know so much insider info?

Congolese culture revolves heavily on what Franco called “les on dits” or gossip. If something happens, someone will talk or it will be caught on tape.

These events happen in many bands, but everything (especially fights) are to another level in Maison Mère due to all the hot heads that have passed through the group.

I blame Werra in part because though he publicly tries to be a hands off guy... in every situation he’s usually instigating in the background via Sankara and co

I'm Congolese myself (1st gen American) and the concept of gossip/songi-songi/les on dits is nothing new to me. If anything,like you said it's one of the biggest parts of our culture.
But what amazes me is that it's gone to a level where people are getting physically harmed and not getting financially compensated because of gossip is crazy to me.

 Does anyone know if any of the original bands members are getting royalties from their previous work with Maison Mere? Or is it's a foreign concept to them? I know lots of business is centered on getting things now. I feel like I can automatically assume that general African distribution deals are fishy to begin with.
 It also sounds like Japonais had a huge part in arranging the music and left with nothing except gifts. Did I read that right? 

71
Woah at this thread. This is all too shocking to me. It's pretty much corruption at every level. This is the first time i'm hearing about these practices of punishing band members in such a way physically and financially. Does this happen in 90% of our Congolese bands? Plus how do you know so much insider info? 

72
To be honest the other problem with this album was it was the beginning of albums getting overhyped and of course they did the koyimbi ko dance to death at concerts that it was getting boring

if the album was released 3 or 6 months earlier, then the album would get the respect it deserved at that time. Because people waited to long for that album, which made it getting not well received at that time, despite the lies of the Congolese press. The album got luckily the respect which it deserved after 5 years. The beginning of albums getting over-hyped was with Temoinage.
*Revives thread *
A LA QUEUE LEU-LEU wasn't received well at the time in Kin? What were the press saying at the time? I would've thought with all the Koyimbi Ko dances in the makbokes it was smash. It was definitely well received in my community here in the States.   
 ALQLL along with Effrakata was definitely on repeat all of 2002 @ every Congolese function I went to lol. Those were two integral albums for me growing up
 
Also, hey everyone this is my first post here! :) After lurking here for like a month, I finally decided to make an account. I lowkey wanted to make introductory thread introducing myself, but I didn't think no one would care lol

WELCOME NDEKO

Merci ndeko na ngai, naza na esengo kozala na fourm lokola oyo. I'm still in the process of teaching myself lingala so bare with me lol 

73
To be honest the other problem with this album was it was the beginning of albums getting overhyped and of course they did the koyimbi ko dance to death at concerts that it was getting boring

if the album was released 3 or 6 months earlier, then the album would get the respect it deserved at that time. Because people waited to long for that album, which made it getting not well received at that time, despite the lies of the Congolese press. The album got luckily the respect which it deserved after 5 years. The beginning of albums getting over-hyped was with Temoinage.
*Revives thread *
A LA QUEUE LEU-LEU wasn't received well at the time in Kin? What were the press saying at the time? I would've thought with all the Koyimbi Ko dances in the makbokes it was a smash. It was definitely well received in my community here in the States.   
 ALQLL along with Effrakata was definitely on repeat all of 2002 @ every Congolese function I went to lol. Those were two integral albums for me growing up
 
Also, hey everyone this is my first post here! :) After lurking here for like a month, I finally decided to make an account. I lowkey wanted to make introductory thread introducing myself, but I didn't think no one would care lol

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