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Messages - Tata Nkiadi

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Learning a lot...
Now back to Congolese drummers some earn praise while others are vilified. In line with the two anlysis could the same line of argument be used to compare them?

It's funny, I don't pay attention to a lot of the negativity surrounding artists and musicians.  I remember once upon a time, Kakol was vilified for not being a good drummer, but Werra stuck by him and now he's pretty decent.  Kakol's issue at the time to me was that he was missing hits and breaks unlike the rest of the musicians who were executing them.  Now he's Chef D'Orchestre of Maison Mere. When Quartier Latin had the lineup with Fally, Ferre, Jipson, Roi Soleil, they had 2 of the best drummers in the game at the time. Titina and Champion Muanza, they were THAT good!  A good drummer knows how to follow with his comrades and vocalists, and knows how to pay attention to what's going on.

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Do western drummers no put emotions in their playing but just play correctly?

Where a drummer is from has nothing to do with it. Titina could probably do the same thing although Congolese music is basically organized improvisation.  Pop music is different, depending on the genre and the song.  In Michael Jackson's case or any other touring artist for that matter, they hire a Musical Director (equivalent to Chef D'Orchestre) who arranges the music specifically for the tour(s).  For most of those songs that are played on the radio, the music tend to be monotonous: minimal breaks and not quite busy.  To get a song live ready for a live band, the song has to sound like the record with a few enhancements. The drummer above had the tough task of staying in the pocket and and making it sound like the record without it losing its originality.  He basically did his job.  There's nothing wrong with charisma or nice tricks only if the song allows for it or the MD wants to take it there.  What amazes me most about him is that he was able to keep the beat going without adding anything.  As an occasional drummer myself, that's extremely hard and takes a lot of skill, practice drills and discipline. 

243
This video isn’t about tricks. It’s about a drummer who can keep perfect timing. He executed all of the hits beautifully while working the hi hats throughout the song without losing a step. For a lot of drummers today that’s hard to do. His chops towards the end were a bit outdated but I digress. Nonetheless, as a professional session drummer he’s extremely skilled.

244
Archos, have you done a biography on Tshala Muana's career yet?

245
N'djili is a dump and as long as airport staff accept bribes, it'll continue to be a dump.  A project this big will take more than 2 years to build. Telling by the photo, Kabila is overseeing the project?  I hope he doesn't expect to be president upon its completion.

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Ouch ;D waiting to see what the reply will be but holy shit Paysan. Glad im not on the other hsnd of that debate lol it’d be hard to come with a rebuttal to this

He’s in the minority. I don’t know what’s funnier, the fact that he’s only arguing with me but everyone else has come to the same conclusion about the sebene, or the fact that I can tear down every thing he says and he’ll come back with opinions rather than facts. It’s like the GOP defending Donald Trump on TV. It’s no longer worth my time. He can keep the boring rhumbas with no sebene. People like what they like. Where is Adoyo when I need him lol

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Congolese Music / Re: OT CHILDSH GAMBINO THIS IS AMERICA
« on: May 09, 2018, 17:14 »
This is funny to me.  It's f***ed up because he has to pick and choose his battles because he's married to a white woman.

1) He speaks up for Black America and he's being shamed for marrying a white woman, or
2) If he doesn't say anything, he gets shamed because he's married to a white woman.

People kill me with that nonsense.  Let's be real here: No American Black woman are checking for Gambino.

248
Having white members on a forum does not mean white people listen to our music. I know white people who like pondu but I'll never say that white people like to eat our food. You're turning anecdote into rule. Congolese music was never popular among westerners. The fact that some white people with a big curiosity were interested in our music does not change that. Our music was popular in Congo and Africa. The average african man listened to congolese music. The average westerner did not know about it or did not care about it. This is like saying that Africans listened to Johnny Haliday. It's not true, even though you'll find some Africans who listened to him.

You're putting words in my mouth.  I never said white people as a whole listen and enjoy African music.  My point was, don't think that the music was only listened to in Africa.  Franco's Live in Holland album should be proof. If you check out his set lists when he performed there, all of his songs were danceable with major emphasis on the sebenes.  Franco knew who to cater to. Despite what Tabu Ley said, he too knew who to cater to when he was outside of Africa. White people can't understand songs like Jugement or Mauvais Temps, it does nothing for them because they don't understand Lingala. If the sebene wasn't/isn't important, why is it being copied and duplicated all over Africa? You can hear it in Afro Pop and Coupe Decale.

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You're listing songs with sebens, but you can't prove that Franco success came from those seben. If the seben was so important why in most cases the seben part was smaller than the rumba part ? And how many pure seben songs back then ? A lot of songs also did not have seben. You can't prove that seben is what drove people outside of Congo to listen to our music. It's something people always claimed but they can't prove it.

Once again you're putting words in my mouth.  I never said Franco's success came from sebene.  His success came from nkisi (I'm kidding). All jokes aside, you're right, some songs didn't have sebene, but it was rare.  There was a story in another forum told by PC Mpondolo, I think, about Papa Noel wanting to play solo like the guitarists in Zaiko and the other younger bands but Franco told him to keep it simple and it worked.The reason why the sebene was shorter? They all had messages. Those songs were carefully arranged and crafted. You also have to look at the times.  We didn't have CDs or MP3s back then.  Candidat Na Biso Mobutu, is over 20 minutes long and had to be broken up into two sides on an EP.

But I ask you again, why don't we have white people commenting on this forum, compared to 10 years ago? It's because after Sens Interdiet and Droit Chemin, the music changed. Too many of them, some whom I am still friends with to this day, will tell you that the music sounds too R&B and nothing for them to dance to. I let one of them listen to Marlene de Reve by Watanabe and told him to listen for OK Jazz elements and he told me he couldn't get past the R&B. Just out of curiosity, how long have you lived outside of Africa?

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Once again, the seben of the 60's is way different from what we call seben today.

You're busy trying to argue with me, but I've been saying this ALL along. The definition is definitely skewed. Fact of the matter is, whether it is a generique or in a rhumba, a sebene is a sebene, no matter how you try to spin it.

249
Congolese Music / Re: Which movie would you wanna see?
« on: May 08, 2018, 22:03 »
The story of the 80s lineup of OK Jazz would be dope. Starting from the recruitment of Madilu to the death of Franco and the subsequent breakup.  What a hell of a story.  Emongo Luambo and Lutumba would have to serve as Exec producers.

250
Saying Franco thrived on the seben is basically blasphemy.
Plus, where do you get the idea that : 1) european listened to our music 2) it was because of "seben"

Ask ANYONE here who have been a part of these forum groups for 15+ years and they will tell you, we had white members here.  Ask those same people why those white members don't contribute anymore.  Ask those same members who contributed faithfully to these forums, providing the latest news and reviews on new and past albums; who collected newspaper clippings and books; who attended concerts when artists like Koffi, Wenge, Zaiko or even Franco in the 80s came to their towns; ask those same members who spun Congolese tunes on their local radio stations; or even ask them about the journalists who wrote countless online articles about the evolution of Zaiko and its various offshoot groups like Choc Stars and Langa Langa Stars; ask about the photographers; and LASTLY ask them who had countless records, tapes and CDs spanning over three decades.  They will honestly tell you, they were white people.  Before we had Archos, we had those people and their resources. 

As for your argument about Franco and the seben, danceable instrumentals are what he played!  Chacun Por Soi, Tala Ba Pesa Merci, AZDA etc. All had sebenes. (I'm probably one of the biggest Franco fan on this forum next to FPK). This new/current meaning of a sebènè is a way to distort what it really is according to history. 

Even historians and researchers say the same thing.



251
Seben is not what got people outside of Congo to love our music. Congolese music was played all over Africa since the 60's. Mbilia Bel is one of the most famous african musician in Latin America, especially Colombia, she never played seben. Franco was famous all over Africa, even the world. He wasn't a seben based musician.

There's a common misconception on what the sebene really is.  in Marie Louise, Wendo Kolosoy yelled out in a "Yoka sebene" and the guitarists plucked out danceable melodies and rhythms, in a rhumba song.  When it comes to the sebene, nakoyoka ba kulutus.  They're the pioneers before Wenge, Zaiko, African Jazz etc.  So when I hear people like you say, people outside of Congo don't care about the sebene, that's not true.  To many Europeans, the sebene can be in a rhumba song.  Franco thrived on the sebene: the danceable instrumental ending of a song.

Somehow through the Evolution of Congolese music, the sebene has been misconstrued to only belong to fast paced songs like generiques.  I blame this on Soukous and Ndombolo.

252
Congolese Music / Re: Effrakata beard
« on: May 05, 2018, 14:46 »
That era was a mess 2001-03 in particular. Everyone was dressing and having crazy braids/hair dyes
like idiots because we all thought it was cool. So much cringe:

^ But man Effrakata was so huge at the time... full Stade de Martyrs, meaning 175,000+ in attendance.  Nobody was touching him the months after release.

I didn't watch many Congolese videos then, they were way too cheesy, especially since I was watching MTV and BET.  I knew about Koffi's pencil beard, but I had NO idea he was also doing that stupid colored weave corn row trend! I'm glad they've finally grown away from it.  My dad would used to tell me, "You can tell the difference between a Congolese living in America and a Congolese living in Europe."  Europe were horrible influences when it came to fashion for Congolese.

253
Sam Mangwana na who left in 1967 to create Les Marquisard recruiting Ntesa Dalienst and co. Also Paul Ndombe who went to create Afrizam until that Tabu Key & Franco went to kill his band, like they used to do to many bands of the 60's & 70's who were a treath to their hegemony. Which made stars like Ntesa, Kiambukuta, Ndombe, Kiese Diambu end up in TPOK Jazz

By the time Sam went to Afrisa, he was already wildly popular even before OK Jazz so I don't know if I'd count him. As for Pepe Ndombe, his success came from OK Jazz and Zing Zong projects and once Franco died, after he left Afrisa once again in the late 80s, he stayed with Simaro & Bana OK until he died so I don't think I'd count him either.  I still can't name an artist who went directly from Afrisa to a solo career and was successful.

254
2) Tabu Ley was a selfish bandleader
Meeting him and spending a whole entire day with him was probably one of the greatest moments of my childhood, but the way he compensated his people in Afrisa was deplorable.  You think Werra was bad, try shipping your whole band to the US, don't pay them and then abandon them, leaving them to fend for themselves.

I remember hearing a legend that Ley composed over 1,000 songs and it wasn't until I was an adult I found out that he got most of his compositions from his musicians and proceeded to credit himself. For me that takes away artistic integrity... with TPOK jazz the public always knew who composed what.

Very interesting rivalry Franco & Tabu Ley had.  To me Afrisa were one dimensional, while OK Jazz had members who came from other groups and were given freedom to write and compose in various styles.  Vieux Rochereau taking credit of his members' composition doesn't surprise me at all.  It's unfortunate.  While OK Jazz produced successful stars like Madilu System, Simaro, Dizzy Mandjeku, and Papa Noel, I can't name one successful artist from Afrisa aside from M'Bilia Bel.

On another note, Ley was the first person in my lifetime to open my eyes to the fact that while Zairean artists may sing songs praising their wives, offstage you wouldn't even know they were married.

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Congolese Music / Re: ALI MBONDA JOINS LA TEAM WATA?
« on: May 02, 2018, 15:38 »
Here is the photo Wata posted yesterday about the migration to bank payments.


This is a great thing Heritier is doing.  The more Congolese invest and put their money in banks, the more good it does for the economy.

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