Congo Vibes

Music => Congolese Music => Topic started by: shamala on February 12, 2014, 15:30

Title: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: shamala on February 12, 2014, 15:30
only Zaiko and Fully would be a hit...
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: Jdog on February 12, 2014, 15:57
Zaiko?? Why would Zaiko be a hit and do you mean if they were to come for a concert?
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: shamala on February 12, 2014, 17:28
Zaiko?? Why would Zaiko be a hit and do you mean if they were to come for a concert?
jdog yes if they had a concert in Kenya only the two would be a hit
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: SLY PAPA NA KEVIN on February 12, 2014, 17:44
I have seen that people in Kenya also love Ferre, most of the Kenyan guys I know here locally and on facebook are always posting Ferre song even on the Yekola Lingala group which is Kenyan it's all Ferre. ;D
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: Franco Pepe Kalle on February 12, 2014, 20:58
Well many Kenyans love Congolese music. In fact I am in a group called Rhumba Vibes on Facebook and they post a lot of Congolese Rumba music.
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: shamala on February 13, 2014, 01:41
guys the only concert I have attended of a Congolese band based in Congo  is that of Ferre ....as Pepe says we are few...they don't understand sebene and most bands would be bored.....BCBG would be asked to sing mulolo
. Fally is a hit because of his world music appeal Zaiko because of its laid back style simple dance moves and old school audience...
off the cuff do you guys know that once koffi had a Kenyan dancer ?
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: Jdog on February 13, 2014, 02:59
do you guys know that once koffi had a Kenyan dancer ?

No who was it??
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: Ken Bilele on February 13, 2014, 10:06
only Zaiko and Fully would be a hit...

That is not true! Just recently I run a voting for the album of the year 2013 on Rhumba Vibes that involved Boite noir,power,circulation Mutambu and Cindy's album and ferre's Boite noir was preferred followed by power then Cindy's album. Then if you have studied Kenyans very well most of the people who listen to or adore lingala music very much are people from where I come from Western part of Kenya that is Nyanza and Western provinces and to some extent the Coastal people.Literally in Kenya, lingala is loved most by the Luo,Luhya and bit of Arab people of the coast, The remaining tribes count very minimal. If koffi come to Kenya today, his show can be filled to capacity as he still enjoy loyal fan base more than any other Congolese musician. The fan base is still there and that can be attested by the number of local Congolese bands that play locally here.
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: Nyumu Wa Mukiti on February 13, 2014, 18:17
only Zaiko and Fully would be a hit...

That is not true! Just recently I run a voting for the album of the year 2013 on Rhumba Vibes that involved Boite noir,power,circulation Mutambu and Cindy's album and ferre's Boite noir was preferred followed by power then Cindy's album. Then if you have studied Kenyans very well most of the people who listen to or adore lingala music very much are people from where I come from Western part of Kenya that is Nyanza and Western provinces and to some extent the Coastal people.Literally in Kenya, lingala is loved most by the Luo,Luhya and bit of Arab people of the coast, The remaining tribes count very minimal. If koffi come to Kenya today, his show can be filled to capacity as he still enjoy loyal fan base more than any other Congolese musician. The fan base is still there and that can be attested by the number of local Congolese bands that play locally here.


In fact, I am constantly amazed by how a majority of Kenyan lingala music fans are not minded by Koffi having Cindy by his side. They adore her a lot.


Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: Nyumu Wa Mukiti on February 13, 2014, 18:19
only Zaiko and Fully would be a hit...

That is not true! Just recently I run a voting for the album of the year 2013 on Rhumba Vibes that involved Boite noir,power,circulation Mutambu and Cindy's album and ferre's Boite noir was preferred followed by power then Cindy's album. Then if you have studied Kenyans very well most of the people who listen to or adore lingala music very much are people from where I come from Western part of Kenya that is Nyanza and Western provinces and to some extent the Coastal people.Literally in Kenya, lingala is loved most by the Luo,Luhya and bit of Arab people of the coast, The remaining tribes count very minimal. If koffi come to Kenya today, his show can be filled to capacity as he still enjoy loyal fan base more than any other Congolese musician. The fan base is still there and that can be attested by the number of local Congolese bands that play locally here.


In fact, I am constantly amazed by how a majority of Kenyan lingala music fans are not minded by Koffi having Cindy by his side. They adore her a lot.


Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: Rajogi on February 14, 2014, 09:53
Man speak for yourself...
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: SLY PAPA NA KEVIN on February 14, 2014, 11:24
Man speak for yourself...
;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: Nyumu Wa Mukiti on February 14, 2014, 11:41
Man speak for yourself...

If find your post quite condescending and rude. I made a general observation of my own. I was responding to Ken Nyakone's post hereinabove on the way he thinks Koffi is capable of having many people attend his show(s) here in Kenya. I did not mention you or anyone for that matter. Please desist from being confrontational.   
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: Rajogi on February 14, 2014, 12:21
Man speak for yourself...

If find your post quite condescending and rude. I made a general observation of my own. I was responding to Ken Nyakone's post hereinabove on the way he thinks Koffi is capable of having many people attend his show(s) here in Kenya. I did not mention you or anyone for that matter. Please desist from being confrontational.
I did not quote you in my reply so how did you arrive at that conclusion???
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: SLY PAPA NA KEVIN on February 14, 2014, 12:37
It's Friday guys, let's not fight, it's time to drink and dance. ;D
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: Nyumu Wa Mukiti on February 14, 2014, 12:44
@ Rajogi...Because your post followed mine and any sane literate person would decipher for whom it was intended.
Look, I joined this forum out of immense love for lingala language,music and a desire to learn though gainful interaction with other members.
So I will not engage myself in meaningless exchanges with you or anyone else. I have made my point, gave an explanation of what my post meant and I stop at that.   
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: Nyumu Wa Mukiti on February 14, 2014, 12:56
It's Friday guys, let's not fight, it's time to drink and dance. ;D

I agree. Nalingi kosombela yo molangi moko ya Skol. By the way the beer is on sale in Kenya. ;D ;D
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: Ken Bilele on February 14, 2014, 13:29
Man speak for yourself...

What Munyu wa Mukiti is saying is the truth. Koffi is still known in this country more than any other musician from Congo. They don't mind Cindy, and again the reason why Wera is not much popular is because most Kenyans don't know how to dance fast sebene and that is what he does. They prefer sebene played by Koffi because they are not much complicated and does not need much energy to dance. For Rajogi cool down with this Rhumba Japan song SOSO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IivC8sU82cU
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: Rajogi on February 14, 2014, 13:47
@Nyumu plz don't take offence I wasn't reffering to you I'm in agreeance with what you said I much rather go see Ferre.
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: Odanga on February 14, 2014, 17:18
I don't think this is really true, i know of many guys most of them friends who just love Congolese Rhumba with specific artists as their best of all. Given the fact that top congolese   artists do not tour Kenya these days, i dont think a Koffi fan would mind attending  a Werrason show in Nairobi  even if Werra isnt his best. One thing i can assure you is that Kenyans love Lingala music and they long for the day big names like Ngiama, Koffi, Papa Cherie, Fally, Ferre would be touring frequently as it   used to be back in the days. BTW what really happened that we cannot have them touring any more?
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: Franco Pepe Kalle on February 14, 2014, 17:21
For many Kenyans, it is Koffi who is the most popular. I can say this because every day on this facebook group RHUMBA VIBES, it seems every minute they are speaking about Koffi as if he is the messiah. Sometimes it is ridiculous. So many people enjoy Koffi quite a bit. Of course you have some who love Franco but most prefer Koffi very strongly.
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: SLY PAPA NA KEVIN on February 14, 2014, 19:41
I agree. Nalingi kosombela yo molangi moko ya Skol. By the way the beer is on sale in Kenya. ;D ;D
Ah,kitoko, mokolo mosusu nako zala kuna na Kenya,naza na nzele moko nakati ya Nairobi. ;D
Enjoy the weekend.
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: Franco Pepe Kalle on February 20, 2014, 20:03
What is also important to point out is that I know Kenyans and even Tanzanians are aware of the likes of Lokassa Ya Mbongo and Dally Kimoko and even Diblo Dibala than actual Congolese folks themselves. Also Kenyans (especially the bantu ones) are naturally into Congolese music. In fact I know Simba Wanyika was a big fan of Dr Nico and they used their music to make their music. I know that also some Kenyan musicians clearly use the music of Franco and Koffi Olomide as inspiration to make their music so beautiful. The only difference is that Kenyan musicians usually use their language which is Swahili.
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: KAISARI on February 21, 2014, 03:25
...Kenyans are hard to predict...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PQQarQMvd8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0biDyKYOVA
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: shamala on March 14, 2016, 10:27
Man speak for yourself...

What Munyu wa Mukiti is saying is the truth. Koffi is still known in this country more than any other musician from Congo. They don't mind Cindy, and again the reason why Wera is not much popular is because most Kenyans don't know how to dance fast sebene and that is what he does. They prefer sebene played by Koffi because they are not much complicated and does not need much energy to dance. For Rajogi cool down with this Rhumba Japan song SOSO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IivC8sU82cU

I just rembered this older post earlier.Proved right.
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: Ken Bilele on March 14, 2016, 17:59
Hehheheheheh Shamala! It's only that Koffi's name evokes bitter emotions, Koffi remains the most famous Congolese abroad. There are several facts I observed that makes Koffi special.One I would say that Koffi draws special audience, his show remains the most expensive so far and was already sold out four days before concert. 
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: EMOVICTEAM on March 15, 2016, 05:01
Man speak for yourself...

What Munyu wa Mukiti is saying is the truth. Koffi is still known in this country more than any other musician from Congo. They don't mind Cindy, and again the reason why Wera is not much popular is because most Kenyans don't know how to dance fast sebene and that is what he does. They prefer sebene played by Koffi because..........
I have seen kenyans dance to rhumba right in the heart of Nairobi. They love congolese music. As of who they like more than others....that is for them to say. I will generalise on this one: koffi olomide is popular because of fraud!! He capitalised on the ride of wenge musica and highly commercialised their music. Its like getting someon's thing and patenting it. Thats what koffi did. No one will argue that the guy used his talent, handsomeness, women, in the fraud process to accumulate fame and money...power etc.
Compare to papa wemba.....he lacked some of those attributes above but must be popular still. The soukous star maestro bongo man is also popular outside Africa.

Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: SYMPLICITY on March 15, 2016, 05:06
Koffi's concert this last weekend was sold out four days to the day.It was filled to the rafters and had mad energy. That is what tells you about his popularity and not the fact that you personally hate him for sleeping with Cindy or because he has stolen Bouro's girlfriend or because you feel you are the moral police and hate that Koffi is old and is sleeping with minors. Kenyans still love him more than Ferre or even Fally. Over here Koffi is still the man. So bloggers kindly put your hate aside and argue with facts not theories.
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: Ken Bilele on March 15, 2016, 07:00
Man speak for yourself...

What Munyu wa Mukiti is saying is the truth. Koffi is still known in this country more than any other musician from Congo. They don't mind Cindy, and again the reason why Wera is not much popular is because most Kenyans don't know how to dance fast sebene and that is what he does. They prefer sebene played by Koffi because..........
I have seen kenyans dance to rhumba right in the heart of Nairobi. They love congolese music. As of who they like more than others....that is for them to say. I will generalise on this one: koffi olomide is popular because of fraud!! He capitalised on the ride of wenge musica and highly commercialised their music. Its like getting someon's thing and patenting it. Thats what koffi did. No one will argue that the guy used his talent, handsomeness, women, in the fraud process to accumulate fame and money...power etc.
Compare to papa wemba.....he lacked some of those attributes above but must be popular still. The soukous star maestro bongo man is also popular outside Africa.

You are wrong again!!
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: SYMPLICITY on March 15, 2016, 08:53
Man speak for yourself...

What Munyu wa Mukiti is saying is the truth. Koffi is still known in this country more than any other musician from Congo. They don't mind Cindy, and again the reason why Wera is not much popular is because most Kenyans don't know how to dance fast sebene and that is what he does. They prefer sebene played by Koffi because..........
I have seen kenyans dance to rhumba right in the heart of Nairobi. They love congolese music. As of who they like more than others....that is for them to say. I will generalise on this one: koffi olomide is popular because of fraud!! He capitalised on the ride of wenge musica and highly commercialised their music. Its like getting someon's thing and patenting it. Thats what koffi did. No one will argue that the guy used his talent, handsomeness, women, in the fraud process to accumulate fame and money...power etc.
Compare to papa wemba.....he lacked some of those attributes above but must be popular still. The soukous star maestro bongo man is also popular outside Africa.

 From what authority do you claim that Koffi commercialised Wenge music? Give us an example please!! And Papa Wemba that you quote as popular is only recognizable by name. Ask any Kenyan to name any music by Papa Wemba and all you will get is Kao koko korobo and Show me the way. Most Kenyans credit Wake Up to Koffi alone. That is how popular Papa Wemba is over here
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: EMOVICTEAM on March 15, 2016, 10:18
Simplicity and Ken Bilele, any rhumba follower during Mopao's tenure, can attest the fact that he uses other works from others, to propel. Haut De Gamme - Koweït, Rive Gauche, Pas de Faux Pas, V12 (1992-onwards) were all began after Koffi's Tchacho of between 1978-1990 lost meaning because of the boiling pot caused by wenge musica albums. Bouger-Bouger, 1988, Kin-e-bouge, 1990, Pleins Feux, 1992, Kala - Yi - Boeing, 1993, Les Anges Adorables, 1994........

In all his CDs, every cri or rap melodies were all copied from Wenge Musica including buying off artists that exhibited traits of wenge musica artists. What can you tell me that I do not know?





 






 
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: archos on March 15, 2016, 11:08
 i concur with emo and there is nothing pejorative in saying that,it actually means that he did what it takes to remain relevant, and he did not stop it with wenge, when  fally did orgazy in droit chemin he  responded as he understood that it worked wonders for his petit,both then set a trend
when he saw that the second version of coupe decale was starting to blossom he tried chicotte a papa, when he saw that it seemed music today was about number of youtube views and  a short generique  or dance song  in any from,to be fully broadcasted at international level what did he do?completely ignore longer generiques done by his atalakus,and do himself selfie to benefit himself aswell of all the hype(like emo rightfully said the group spirit is completely dying at expense of solo glory) and promoted it heavily
he understood that in clips of many artists all over the world were becoming more and more sensual,what did he do?   the first ever congolese clip with scenes of lesbianism( not judgeing or whatever just talking about sensuality factor)
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: SYMPLICITY on March 15, 2016, 14:45
i concur with emo and there is nothing pejorative in saying that,it actually means that he did what it takes to remain relevant, and he did not stop it with wenge, when  fally did orgazy in droit chemin he  responded as he understood that it worked wonders for his petit,both then set a trend
when he saw that the second version of coupe decale was starting to blossom he tried chicotte a papa, when he saw that it seemed music today was about number of youtube views and  a short generique  or dance song  in any from,to be fully broadcasted at international level what did he do?completely ignore longer generiques done by his atalakus,and do himself selfie to benefit himself aswell of all the hype(like emo rightfully said the group spirit is completely dying at expense of solo glory) and promoted it heavily
he understood that in clips of many artists all over the world were becoming more and more sensual,what did he do?   the first ever congolese clip with scenes of lesbianism( not judgeing or whatever just talking about sensuality factor)

I hear you archos. I needed some clarifications here i.e
1. who between Koffi and Wenge started singing earlier than the other?
2. who used ndombolo first? was it koffi in Mossokossokou(wake up album) or was it JB Mpiana in Feux de l'amour?
3. who between them started using two atalakus in the same song(s)
4. who started using female dancers before the other?

Iam asking those questions because i think Koffi also pioneered a lot of things that other artists have copied over time. Or has he never created anything original that has been copied by others over time archos?

Lastly it is not only Koffi who has copied use of de calle, or shorter sebenes or sensual stuff and other stuff. Almost all artists in Congo are now doing the same. But ask yourself why not all of them are succeeding with it as Koffi is doing?
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: archos on March 15, 2016, 15:20
i concur with emo and there is nothing pejorative in saying that,it actually means that he did what it takes to remain relevant, and he did not stop it with wenge, when  fally did orgazy in droit chemin he  responded as he understood that it worked wonders for his petit,both then set a trend
when he saw that the second version of coupe decale was starting to blossom he tried chicotte a papa, when he saw that it seemed music today was about number of youtube views and  a short generique  or dance song  in any from,to be fully broadcasted at international level what did he do?completely ignore longer generiques done by his atalakus,and do himself selfie to benefit himself aswell of all the hype(like emo rightfully said the group spirit is completely dying at expense of solo glory) and promoted it heavily
he understood that in clips of many artists all over the world were becoming more and more sensual,what did he do?   the first ever congolese clip with scenes of lesbianism( not judgeing or whatever just talking about sensuality factor)

I hear you archos. I needed some clarifications here i.e
1. who between Koffi and Wenge started singing earlier than the other?
2. who used ndombolo first? was it koffi in Mossokossokou(wake up album) or was it JB Mpiana in Feux de l'amour?
3. who between them started using two atalakus in the same song(s)
4. who started using female dancers before the other?

Iam asking those questions because i think Koffi also pioneered a lot of things that other artists have copied over time. Or has he never created anything original that has been copied by others over time archos?

Lastly it is not only Koffi who has copied use of de calle, or shorter sebenes or sensual stuff and other stuff. Almost all artists in Congo are now doing the same. But ask yourself why not all of them are succeeding with it as Koffi is doing?

1 koffi started earlier next to viva and clan zaiko in general before creation of a "private" quartier latin with the marie paul,djunafa and co and later the real quartier latin
2 Koffi did ndombolo first in mousoukousoukou for the simple reason that wenge refused to release caludji to join europe and participate on wake up,caludji himself talked about it in his recent interviews
3 two atalakus i'd say they did in same year almost,caludji was around for a while next to ekokota but only participated to pentagone in 97 while somono and mboshi arrived more or less in that period
4 here again more or less same time 90 91 if i am not mistaken

yes indeed not only koffi,but if you notice well coupe decale and whatever different from typical sebene worked out only with big names

 of course he created with many of the guys around like do akongo (lets give them due credit) the tchatcho rhythm,but  i would certainly shock you in saying himself has dumped real tchatcho, the pure tchatcho has kind of gone with a couple of factors to take into account,the level of musicians he plays with now is nowhere near those who participated in legendary tchatcho songs and himself the style of writing has changed except in some  of the songs for aliya for example where he makes an extra effort to sound romantic like in the older tchatcho
 and  the argument i gave about the level applies to most of the other musicians, it is said that they play tchatcho, but i rather believe,they all including koffi himself have gone into  a music with too much programming but with some of the very basic charactersitics of what was tchatcho
you'll notice that at the end of the day,everybody plays the same but not only for copying( the copying happened long ago,not denying it) but rather that there is a lack of creativity from musicians and arrangers so only two things change from an artist to another, the sound quality and the voices
 i dont know if you get what i mean
Title: Re: IF CONGOLESE BANDS WERE TO COME TO KENYA..,
Post by: SYMPLICITY on March 15, 2016, 17:29
i concur with emo and there is nothing pejorative in saying that,it actually means that he did what it takes to remain relevant, and he did not stop it with wenge, when  fally did orgazy in droit chemin he  responded as he understood that it worked wonders for his petit,both then set a trend
when he saw that the second version of coupe decale was starting to blossom he tried chicotte a papa, when he saw that it seemed music today was about number of youtube views and  a short generique  or dance song  in any from,to be fully broadcasted at international level what did he do?completely ignore longer generiques done by his atalakus,and do himself selfie to benefit himself aswell of all the hype(like emo rightfully said the group spirit is completely dying at expense of solo glory) and promoted it heavily
he understood that in clips of many artists all over the world were becoming more and more sensual,what did he do?   the first ever congolese clip with scenes of lesbianism( not judgeing or whatever just talking about sensuality factor)

I hear you archos. I needed some clarifications here i.e
1. who between Koffi and Wenge started singing earlier than the other?
2. who used ndombolo first? was it koffi in Mossokossokou(wake up album) or was it JB Mpiana in Feux de l'amour?
3. who between them started using two atalakus in the same song(s)
4. who started using female dancers before the other?

Iam asking those questions because i think Koffi also pioneered a lot of things that other artists have copied over time. Or has he never created anything original that has been copied by others over time archos?

Lastly it is not only Koffi who has copied use of de calle, or shorter sebenes or sensual stuff and other stuff. Almost all artists in Congo are now doing the same. But ask yourself why not all of them are succeeding with it as Koffi is doing?

1 koffi started earlier next to viva and clan zaiko in general before creation of a "private" quartier latin with the marie paul,djunafa and co and later the real quartier latin
2 Koffi did ndombolo first in mousoukousoukou for the simple reason that wenge refused to release caludji to join europe and participate on wake up,caludji himself talked about it in his recent interviews
3 two atalakus i'd say they did in same year almost,caludji was around for a while next to ekokota but only participated to pentagone in 97 while somono and mboshi arrived more or less in that period
4 here again more or less same time 90 91 if i am not mistaken

yes indeed not only koffi,but if you notice well coupe decale and whatever different from typical sebene worked out only with big names

 of course he created with many of the guys around like do akongo (lets give them due credit) the tchatcho rhythm,but  i would certainly shock you in saying himself has dumped real tchatcho, the pure tchatcho has kind of gone with a couple of factors to take into account,the level of musicians he plays with now is nowhere near those who participated in legendary tchatcho songs and himself the style of writing has changed except in some  of the songs for aliya for example where he makes an extra effort to sound romantic like in the older tchatcho
 and  the argument i gave about the level applies to most of the other musicians, it is said that they play tchatcho, but i rather believe,they all including koffi himself have gone into  a music with too much programming but with some of the very basic charactersitics of what was tchatcho
you'll notice that at the end of the day,everybody plays the same but not only for copying( the copying happened long ago,not denying it) but rather that there is a lack of creativity from musicians and arrangers so only two things change from an artist to another, the sound quality and the voices
 i dont know if you get what i mean

archos, whenever i am confronted with arguments backed up by facts, My training makes it very difficult for me not to be impressed. You always argue objectively and that is something to be respected.